Future of ships

How do we make the hydrogen?
Making hydrogen then using in a fuel cell is less efficient than using that same power to charge a battery to run your electric motor in the first place.
Sums dont seem to add up till all countries have free power then we dont care how we use it.
Battery cars beat fuel cell ones by a wide margin currently.
Could you put enough of either to drive a ship for a few weeks?
I think power density of diesel along with its drive train still beats them for long haul stuff.
Remember what powers an aircraft

Then Nikola comes along…

https://nikolamotor.com/one

Agree power density is key. Doing E/R time you were told early on that a bucket of diesel is more powerful than a stick of dynamite.

The game changer is hydrogen, solar/wind and distributed storage. Shipping majors are starting to switch to LNG as a step change that will take a generation. The next step will be hydrogen. This solves all the restrictions for ECAs.

LNG turbines will the power for autonomous ships in my book
Hydrogen might not ever suceed

Hydrogen produced from renewable energy is the only zero emission fuel, other than nuclear, that is suitable for powering ships on ocean crossings.

Yes it has less power density than diesel, but a lot more than batteries. It has a lot of other advantages though.
That Hydrogen is more dangerous as a fuel than others is a myth though. Handled correctly it is actually less dangerous:
https://h2tools.org/bestpractices/h2properties

One of the problems with nearly all renewable energy is that it is not always available, or predictable, thus storage is a major issue.
How to store energy when it is excess for use when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine?
Or when the need is in a different place from the source of hydro electricity? (Without expensive power transport lines/cables)
A new HV cable will be installed between Denmark and UK to export power from Denmark, where there are frequently excess of renewable power:

In the future Hydrogen will be produced from such access power and used to power cars, ships and power stations that kicks in when there is a shortage.

We are talking FUTURE here, not present. But you have to prepare for that future, not say it can’t be done.

I think the autonomous issue is not constrained by renewable s so not sure if it factors into it.
Very few countries could replace oil with hydrogen without buring lots more coal

The sun shines and/or the wind blows in most countries. Even your (and mine) adopted home of Singapore is able to produce a lot of solar power by utilizing roof spaces and water reservoirs:

But there are other options as well; Hydro power, Thermal power, Ocean current and Tidal power, Wave power to mention the most obvious.

Distributed storage is part of the answer levelling out the peaks:

http://www.green-hedge.com/the-energy-barn/

Yes batteries for standby power in case of a main power interruption is feasible, but it would take a lot of Energy Barns to power a 22000 TEU container ship across the Pacific.

BTW; What do they do with excess power after the battery bank is fully charged and no disruption occure? Maybe shut down the power source for an hour to drain the batteries and start the cycle all over again?

Wouldn’t it be better to use the excess power to produce Hydrogen and store enough to power fuel cell for the same time on site. Surplus Hydrogen could be sold to power busses, trucks and ferries etc. in the area, or even ships.

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Batteries? Y’all talking about large battery installations?

We have a problem here so basic that it defys belief. Has anyone seen a fully automatic pilot ladder or a pilot ladder accomodation ladder that deploys at a touch of a button? The mooring crew will also have to board in time to break out mooring lines before the vessel approachs the berth. What pilot is going to board without a responsible officer at the top of the boarding area?
A ship rarely sails with all systems working 100%. The automated ship will require the same attention as a space probe which will be difficult in third world ports.
In a US port Homeland Security will insist on Security Guards be hired at a cost of at least $9000 per diem.
The best engineers that I have sailed with had completed a fitting and turning apprenticeship of 4 years in a heavy marine industry before obtaining a third engineers licence. After 18 months seatime they could attend a marine school and after six months concentrated study sit exams which included oral exams for second engineer. Returning to sea for another 18 months, then school and exams for a chief engineer ticket completed the qualifications.
On many shipping companies a newly minted chief engineer sailed as the third engineer and worked his way up.
Electricians with very good electronic knowledge are also an asset. One I had was able to repair the Sat B on a voyage to the US which without it would have meant using a Sat C and a third party to complete the required documentation.
He repaired the unit using spares from another unrelated piece of equipment.

Sounds nice as a throway quip but what is the volume of a ton of hydrogen vs a ton of lithium batteries?

BTW, I think the future of ships is bright, the future of seafarers not so bright.

Sp.g. of liquid Hydrogen is: 70.8 kg/mÂł

Here is more about Hydrogen as an automotive fuel:

To scale this up power a 22000 TEU Container ship on a 20 day voyage is obviously a challenge, but now being developed. Let’s first start with a ship on short trips and take it from there.

More to the point, how much of the vessel volume is required for “fuel” storage?

Diesel fuel contains around 11,000 Watt hours per liter.
Liquid hydrogen contains around 2600 Watt hours per liter
LNG contains around 6100 Watt hours per liter
Li Ion batteries contain between 250 and 690 Watt hours per liter
LiFePO4 batteries contain around 100 Watt hours per liter

How big does a ship have to be to hold enough “fuel” to go from A to B? It looks like we are back to the very early days of steamboats when they had a hard time carrying enough wood or coal to get out of their own way.

autonomous large ship=diesel or
maybe LNG and turbines

Would they be barns or boxes - how much energy can be packed in a bay?

Thats the advantage of distributed storage. Energy barns are located close to the HT networks and store the excess as large scale stations ramp up & down, or excess from renewables.

That would be the future and that is what Nikola are working towards.

Also pumped storage is an option.

http://www.electricmountain.co.uk/Dinorwig-Power-Station

My money is on LNG and slow steaming multi-fuel recips.

are we assuming there will be eng crew on board?
My design is nobody on board so maybe modular powerpaks that can be swapped at port by the container crane, no cooling water, no warm up etc. Better power density
Which do you reckon could run the longest unattended, a turbine or piston engine?

Bladon Jets go 8,000 hours between service

They don’t even have a product out! Look at their “brochure”, it’s hilarious. Lots of bar charts and figures and the axis aren’t even labeled. But I’m sure they get plenty of funding. Capstone turbine already has this market saturated.

Fuel cells run on LNG initially, then Hydrogen when the technology advances is another option:

BTW; Whether the ships will be totally autonomous and without any crew is a different matter from what will be the marine fuel of the future. Most likely that development will also go in steps, maybe dependent on the type of fuel and machinery in use. (Less moving parts/ less chance of breakdowns. Less liquides/less chance of leaks)

Just out of curiosity:
I don’t think there is any statistics, but how much of an Engineer’s working hours are spent on maintenance and repairs of machinery, equipment and critical systems while under way/in operation? (Especially on modern DP-3 vessels, with 100% redundancy on most things)

Conversely; On today’s ships, how much time does Engineers spend on repairing and maintaining equipment that is there for crew wellbeing and safety? (Unstuffing clogged toilets etc.)