Hello everybody,
I made a small footage of my cadetship onboard AHTS President Hubert and I want to share a video with You, how was the look from this small tugboat for 6 months.
Enjoy. 
Nicely done. What are the details of the boat and did you learn anything?
[QUOTE=KrustySalt;180805]Nicely done. What are the details of the boat and did you learn anything?[/QUOTE]
It was a medium sized AHTS, L=60.45m, B=15.5m with bollard pull of 180t and we were engaged into some projects in North Sea gas fields, Siberia; also towing of that large shipâs hull type barge (the one you can see in video) from Spain to Rostock, also we were doing Netherlands Coastguard duties for 6 weeks, so You can see that I learned a lot, because all these actions for me were for the first time. Previously I had a practice on oil tanker.
Agreed. Nice, but very obviously the deck cadet. . . .
[QUOTE=cmakin;180818]Agreed. Nice, but very obviously the deck cadet. . . .[/QUOTE]
What is wrong with it?
[QUOTE=Amphiney;181141]What is wrong with it?[/QUOTE]
I will take a wild guess, itâs the lack of footage from the engine room.
[QUOTE=Kraken;181144]I will take a wild guess, itâs the lack of footage from the engine room.[/QUOTE]
I think the soundtrack sucked and what is the bridge scene with the two playing hackeysack and the guy in the chair asleep?
plus where was the footage of seamen on deck making and breaking tow?
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[QUOTE=KrustySalt;180805]Nicely done. What are the details of the boat and did you learn anything?[/QUOTE]
Iâd like to know who President Hubert is?
[QUOTE=c.captain;181165]here is an interesting video I just ran across
//youtu.be/nD7SA3fqQkg
[/QUOTE]
Cool video
[QUOTE=Kraken;181144]I will take a wild guess, itâs the lack of footage from the engine room.[/QUOTE]
And the cruise ship like attitude. . . not a lot of work shown. . .
Iâve worked jobs with the Rotterdam and the Singapore, they may be old but they are still impressive.
nice to watch after being on the beach a while. next time get to the engine rm. plz.
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[QUOTE=Amphiney;181141]What is wrong with it?[/QUOTE]
Good effort, but next time ask the Captain why is he towing with the wire locked in the guide pins on the stern.
- If the wire is locked in the guide pins, you just transferred your pivot point to that spot, and that spot is above the rudders. Essentially, you cannot turn the vessel - no leverage to do so. Not a very good practice. Plus, if the wire causes a burr on the horizontal locking pins, and they cannot seat all the way against the proximity switch for that reason, you could not retract the large vertical pins if you wanted because of the interlock philosophy (to keep some knucklehead from retracting the vertical guide pin in the deck with the horizontal pin still extended).
Those are good questions to ask as you learn the ropes.
See the Bourbon Dolphin. Different scenario, but same physics. Vessel got in a jam because the wire was locked in the guide pins, and decided to put them down while still under power - trying to turn. X2 bad mistakes with catastrophic results.
[QUOTE=anchorman;181512]Good effort, but next time ask the Captain why is he towing with the wire locked in the guide pins on the stern.
- If the wire is locked in the guide pins, you just transferred your pivot point to that spot, and that spot is above the rudders. Essentially, you cannot turn the vessel - no leverage to do so. Not a very good practice.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs standard practice for many, many offshore towing vessels, itâs why the Crowley Invader class tugs have three rudders. The only time Iâve NOT had the wire between the pins with the hold down on was running a really tight passage in Alaska on a short wire. (We never really towed astern in channels in western Alaska like is common on the east coast.)
I believe itâs safer to do it that way as well because itâs significantly harder to trip the tug when the wire is effectively attached to the end instead of the middle. The barge overtaking you would simply pull the tug backwards instead of flipping and sinking it. Therefore, if you want to see examples of WHY to tow like that look up every casualty caused by tripping, probably a least a few hundred of them.
Arresting the pennant wire in the guide pins was a contributing factor in the capsizing of the Bourbon Dolphin. When released the wire moved uncontrolled and rapidly to the quarter. The overturning moment very quickly became excessive and that top modern large AHTS turn turtle in a matter of seconds, killing 8 people.
If you look at the newer Norwegian designed AHTS there is no possibility for the tow wire to get off the quarters and on to the tow rails with stoppers only near amidships.
Here is an example. No way the tow wire can enter onto the tow rail:
As seen here, they also use remotely operated âcotter pinsâ to restrict the wire from moving too far off the center line. (Unless required to obtain sufficient âtowing armâ for maneuvering. (I.e. distance between rudder/thruster position and point of attack of the towing wire)
The Dutch has use ârunning gog wireâ to obtain the same control for donkeyâs years.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;181537]Thatâs standard practice for many, many offshore towing vessels, itâs why the Crowley Invader class tugs have three rudders. The only time Iâve NOT had the wire between the pins with the hold down on was running a really tight passage in Alaska on a short wire. (We never really towed astern in channels in western Alaska like is common on the east coast.)
I believe itâs safer to do it that way as well because itâs significantly harder to trip the tug when the wire is effectively attached to the end instead of the middle. The barge overtaking you would simply pull the tug backwards instead of flipping and sinking it. Therefore, if you want to see examples of WHY to tow like that look up every casualty caused by tripping, probably a least a few hundred of them.[/QUOTE]
No need to patronize me on something I am fully aware of and have experienced first hand for a few decades. I understand everything that you are saying, although I am not convinced that out of these hundreds of casualties that one will have an immediate cause of a substandard act by not locking the wire at the stern. I dare not say itâs not there if you allude it is, but since you mentioned this as to the WHY in trying to educate me, I am very interested in reading just this one example casualty report.
The fact remains that I have put this young lad on a trajectory with enough information to ask the right questions and it can be explained to him as to why the vessel is doing what they are doing at that moment of time. That does not take away that locking the wire at the stern, particularly on a AHTS vessel, with a longer deck & large sail area, that turning outside of minor course corrections will be nearly impossible at times, and by then it can be too late. The standard practice (and safest) is to have a mid-point connection, usually in the middle of the deck, allowing a pivot point that is more forward that allows better steerage
[QUOTE=ombugge;181566]Arresting the pennant wire in the guide pins was a contributing factor in the capsizing of the Bourbon Dolphin. When released the wire moved uncontrolled and rapidly to the quarter. The overturning moment very quickly became excessive and that top modern large AHTS turn turtle in a matter of seconds, killing 8 people.
If you look at the newer Norwegian designed AHTS there is no possibility for the tow wire to get off the quarters and on to the tow rails with stoppers only near amidships.
Here is an example. No way the tow wire can enter onto the tow rail:
As seen here, they also use remotely operated âcotter pinsâ to restrict the wire from moving too far off the center line. (Unless required to obtain sufficient âtowing armâ for maneuvering. (I.e. distance between rudder/thruster position and point of attack of the towing wire)
The Dutch has use ârunning gog wireâ to obtain the same control for donkeyâs years.[/QUOTE]
Yes, been on many vessels with that arrangement, and had to file down those pins down on a few occassions - they are only stop pins, they do not roll like guide pins do. Most of the modern AHTS vessel have the Triplex gantry, or Rolls Royce âSafe deckâ tracking cranes (as in this example), and having range of movement from the quarters will allow some maneuverability outside of being locked in the guide pins (which are called guide pins as their purpose is to guide the wire to be aligned with the Shark Jaws or Karm Fork to make connections) - not for towing. Reducing power on one screw and increasing on the other (out board of where you are trying to turn) will allow turning as well, albeit slowly. A tradition tug is better suited for towing compared to these multi-purpose type vessels.
[QUOTE=anchorman;181569]No need to patronize me on something I am fully aware of and have experienced first hand for a few decades.[/QUOTE]
- I didnât mean to be patronizing.
- I donât know much of anything about your knowledge or experience other than youâre a very experienced anchor boat operator. If someone only works East coast tugs using a Texas bar for 20 years and never goes anywhere other than Baltimore/Philly/NY they might not even know that there are boats that tow with the wire held down between tow pins. They might also be taught to believe that that would be dangerous because it limits your steering and it would be stupid to ever do it. I was trying to point out for the general audience referencing out forum that there are other ways and what youâre saying doesnât apply to all towing operations.
[QUOTE=anchorman;181569]but since you mentioned this as to the WHY in trying to educate me, I am very interested in reading just this one example casualty report.[/QUOTE]
I expect that no such report exists. The WHY would be tripping from the barge overrunning the tug BUT in order to trip a tug it almost always would require the wire or hawser to be attached amidships and above the waterline. Thereâs no guarantee that the tug would survive with the wire held between the pins, but itâs almost impossible to trip it.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;181589]1) I didnât mean to be patronizing.
2) I donât know much of anything about your knowledge or experience other than youâre a very experienced anchor boat operator. If someone only works East coast tugs using a Texas bar for 20 years and never goes anywhere other than Baltimore/Philly/NY they might not even know that there are boats that tow with the wire held down between tow pins. They might also be taught to believe that that would be dangerous because it limits your steering and it would be stupid to ever do it. I was trying to point out for the general audience referencing out forum that there are other ways and what youâre saying doesnât apply to all towing operations.
I expect that no such report exists. The WHY would be tripping from the barge overrunning the tug BUT in order to trip a tug it almost always would require the wire or hawser to be attached amidships and above the waterline. Thereâs no guarantee that the tug would survive with the wire held between the pins, but itâs almost impossible to trip it.[/QUOTE]
No worries. Although this was in the context of a AHTS vessels, as per the content of the thread. Of course, having a barge over run you, and that has nearly happened (to me) coming out of the Mississippi in the spring with a loaded grain barge (where staying off the green side can be a challenge with stiff following current!), or coming out of Magdalena River in Columbia where you open into 8 foot or better seas as the outbound high current hits the prevailing offshore condition (the worse condition is usually right at the entrance and do not have that winch on a hard brake - might be the last thing you do). In either case, where tripping was the highest risk, this was the time not to have the wire locked at the stern the most. Very true if you did trip, the consequences would be less if you were locked at the stern, but this is a plan for failure as maneuvarability would have prevented it to begin with - in these particular cases. Each vessel is different, scenarios are different, and an experienced Captain will normally identify the correct course of action to be successful and plan for that. Having a wire locked in the stern is not prohibited in every single case, and can be appropriate at times, but with inherent risks. As you mentioned as well, some cases are not so appropriate, particularly in tight quarters.
Maybe having three rudders on the Invader Class tugs allows for more, but at the same time, if the 3rd rudder was installed specifically for that purpose (as you pointed out), I would stipulate that not many vessels have that feature; not having Kort Nozzles (Ducted Props) make that feature feasible, and maybe a good design trade-off. I am not sure to be perfectly honest - never worked on a three rudder twin screw vessel before.
But, good conversation. Nowadays I am more a manager than a Captain, and probably getting rusty anyway.