Fixed Blade VS Folding Sailor Knives

When I started sailing on merchant ships most of the old timers used fixed blade knives like the old school Merchant Pro Wood or, more likely, they had made their own a some point in the machine shop. Today most mariners I know carry a folding knife (I carry the Spyderco Tusk as a general utility knife at sea and the Atlantic Salt as my safety knife… but… I’m thinking of getting a fixed blade (or making my own… I’ve been doing some backyard forging with my 10 y/o son).

Some questions:
Why are the advantages of using a fixed blade knife (vs folder) aboard ship?
What are the best fixed blade sailor knives of past and present?
What features, design and materials are ideal for a fixed blade ship knife?
How do you secure the knife if wearing coveralls?
Why do I see so few fixed blades on ships anymore? (besides crazy/stupid HSE rules)

-John

P.S. Bonus to anyone who uploads pictures of old school custom fixed blade mariner knives handed down to them!

[QUOTE=john;185312]When I started sailing on merchant ships most of the old timers used fixed blade knives like the old school Merchant Pro Wood or, more likely, they had made their own a some point in the machine shop. Today most mariners I know carry a folding knife (I carry the Spyderco Tusk as a general utility knife at sea and the Atlantic Salt as my safety knife… but… I’m thinking of getting a fixed blade (or making my own… I’ve been doing some backyard forging with my 10 y/o son).

Some questions:
Why are the advantages of using a fixed blade knife (vs folder) aboard ship?
What are the best fixed blade sailor knives of past and present?
What features, design and materials are ideal for a fixed blade ship knife?
How do you secure the knife if wearing coveralls?
Why do I see so few fixed blades on ships anymore? (besides crazy/stupid HSE rules)

-John

P.S. Bonus to anyone who uploads pictures of old school custom fixed blade mariner knives handed down to them![/QUOTE]

I always carry some kind of knife on a vessel, mostly folding ones nowadays because they take up less space and are easily hidden and I don’t want to scare little children and their mamas when off the ship. If you are familiar with the following, please ignore it. I am quoting it as a reminder that once you step off the gangway, you are subject to state laws, for example in California:
California law makes it illegal to possess and carry certain types of knives. Many are confused as to what types of knives are legal, and which types are illegal. Per the penal code there are many types of “knives”, each with its own description and set of laws. These include, ballistic knives, switch blades, folding knives, dirk or dagger, belt knives, assisted opening knives, disguised knives etc. As a general rule of thumb, most exotic types of blades are outright illegal for the common citizen to possess, sale, manufacture, etc. See California Penal Code Section 12020(a)(1) for detail.
What Types of knives can be legally carried?
The three most common types of knives are folding knives, switch blades and fixed blade knives also know as dirks or daggers. We will define each type of knife and explain the laws surrounding them.
Folding knives are knives that “opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position” . All folding knives are legal. California Penal Code Section 17235. As long as they are in the folded position they can be carried in a concealed manner. There is no blade length restriction per the penal code.
Switch blades are generally defined as knives that look like folding knives but lack the above elements. (thumb stud, bias toward the closed position etc). They include spring blades, snap blades, gravity knives or any knife which can be opened automatically. Automatically, meaning by a mechanism, spring, gravity, flick of the wrist etc. The blade must be 2 inches in length or longer in order to be classified as a switch blade. Switch blades are illegal to sell or give away. They are illegal to carry in public, concealed or open. Penal Code section 17235.
For fixed blades (known as a dirk or dagger), or a folding knife in the open and locked position, they must be carried “openly”. California Penal Code section 16470 classifies a dirk or dagger as a knife or instrument with or without a hand guard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. Per the penal code there is no length limit as long as it is carried openly. A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer is considered open carry and is legal. Penal code section 20200. Carrying a concealed dirk or dagger is illegal pursuant to Penal Code Section 12020(a)(4).
There are restrictions as to carrying knives when entering schools, Universities and Colleges, and Public buildings open to the public such as courts, city halls, police stations etc. For Schools K-12, no knives with blades longer than 2.5 inches are allowed unless they are required for particular work type duties. Razor blades and box cutters are also prohibited. Penal Code section 626.10. For colleges and Universities, no fixed blades bigger than 2.5 inches are allowed. However there is no restriction on folding knives as long as they don’t fall under the category of switch blades. For state or local public buildings, it is illegal to carry any knife with a blade of more than 4 inches onto the premise. California Penal Code Section 171b.
About the Author: Christopher Martens is an attorney at the Law Offices of Christopher Martens at CMLawGroup.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to crack the code for posting photos from my computer to gCaptain so no pics. Good luck on your quest.

Fixed blade knives are generally stronger and more durable than folding knives. In a fixed knife It’s best to look for high carbon stainless steel. I just have a small Swiss Army folding knife that is decent for occasional use but I’ve been meaning to buy a better one for work.

Yes, I know the law and am not too worried about it… I’m Looking for information on fixed blade use aboard ship and could care less about using one as an EDC shoreside (Except in the woods but this post ain’t about Bushcraft :wink: …and I have no intent on using a knife to comit a crime or injure anyone (thats what firearms are for :wink:

[QUOTE=john;185316]Yes, I know the law and am not too worried about it… I’m Looking for information on fixed blade use aboard ship and could care less about using one as an EDC shoreside (Except in the woods but this post ain’t about Bushcraft :wink: …and I have no intent on using a knife to comit a crime or injure anyone (thats what firearms are for ;)[/QUOTE]

from what I see at APL at MLL, fixed blade or “sheath knives” are basically never seen, and are specifically disallowed at MLL.

isn’t there still USC or CFR text specifically addressing permissible knife types and blade length on merchant ships? I know it read it once years ago from either the USC or CFR.

And isn’t a fact that California is the most paranoid, rights infringing, pussy ass state in the union. Are butter knives or child scissors even allowed there?

Boom!

Ferdig snakka.

Moraknife is the only knife you need.
It’s stainless steel, you will have a hard time losing it and it’s dirt cheap so it is not something you need to worry about.

And as the saying goes: A sailor without a knife is like a whore without a pussy.

It’s common on Norwegian ships to get a Moraknife with the PPE equipment they give you on the first day on board.

[QUOTE=Kraken;185318]

Boom!

Ferdig snakka.

Moraknife is the only knife you need.
It’s stainless steel, you will have a hard time losing it and it’s dirt cheap so it is not something you need to worry about.

And as the saying goes: A sailor without a knife is like a whore without a pussy.

It’s common on Norwegian ships to get a Moraknife with the PPE equipment they give you on the first day on board.[/QUOTE]

Yeah Mora’s arr great. I got a knife exactly like the one you posted but serrated. The serrations sucked so I used my dremel to copy spyderco’s serration partern and I blunted the tip… Works great and I highly reccomend them to anyone who wants a solidly good fixed blade on a budget… but… I have a forge a forge and know I can do better.

California’s knife laws are ok. You can open carry pretty much anything not on the prohibited list regardless of length. Of course it has a bunch of B.S. too (my wife breaks the law everyday carrying her illegal knitting needles!) but we have a big loophole that allows you to carry an illegal knife that you have a practical use for to and from your job.

Los Angelas has it’s own set of very restrictive laws but… I don’t live in LA

You need to come to God’s country where it’s perfectly legal to have one of these in your pocket …

I have one of these…

I saw a Mate take a wooden mallet and make about 6 good raps on that and it went right through a 2 inch polypro line. I ordered one that night.

A fixed blade can be whipped out ready to go with one hand, no problem. Plus no fiddling with the blade if you are wearing gloves. Also, there is no hinge to wear out by beating with a mallet. I have a Myerchin fixed blade, partially serrated that would go through 2-3 inch line in no time (by hand). The sheath also holds a marlinspike which is handy.

As far as forging your own goes, check out “The Fifty Dollar Knife Shop”. Excellent book on backyard forging on a budget. I think the author was Wayne Goddard.
You can’t beat old files for materials, cheap and readily available. Sure, they rust, but if you take care of it it will last a long time. While I have never forged a knife for sea, I have made plenty for the woods and they all work great.

Ive been carrying one of these for the last 2 years. Myerchin has come a long way in quality.

Personally I love the durability and dependability of a fixed blade.

Left, top down: Small patch knife not even close to done, then a medium sized knife for “sea” with a lot of finish work left to be done. On the right is the Myerchin, etc.

Lets see if that pic actually works…

Well the pic orientation is buggered but you get the idea.

I love the Myerchin Offshore folders. I have the Captain and the Crew size.

https://flic.kr/p/Hkqk5d

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;185317]from what I see at APL at MLL, fixed blade or “sheath knives” are basically never seen, and are specifically disallowed at MLL.

isn’t there still USC or CFR text specifically addressing permissible knife types and blade length on merchant ships? I know it read it once years ago from either the USC or CFR.

And isn’t a fact that California is the most paranoid, rights infringing, pussy ass state in the union. Are butter knives or child scissors even allowed there?[/QUOTE]

There is a regulation in the CFR’s and it is also mentioned on the “Forecastle Card”/foreign articles. I believe it’s been in the books since the 1930’s. It is not allowed by U.S.C. but it is allowed at the Master’s discretion to carry a fixed blade or full tang knife on a U.S. flag ship. Couple that with specific company rules against carrying of weapons onboard and a folding knife becomes the standard on my ship. I’m fond of Spyderco knives. Their spyder edge serrated blades will cut through rope like butter.

I’ve got myself a Boye Knives folder with a Sheepfoot and marlinspike. Made in America too!

I haven’t had much of a chance to use it yet, but it is always on me.

I have a Boye just like that and wont keep an edge at all…

I have always been a fan of Buck Knives - I have 3 of them. Just 2 folding alpha hunter’s, and 102 woodsman straight blade.

I’ve carried a Leatherman Wave onboard for a while now, the pliers come in handy.

yeah, same dumb old store, but this thing is great and you don’t care if it gets lost

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--stainless-steel-serrated-rigging-knife--7785512

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;185317]…isn’t there still USC or CFR text specifically addressing permissible knife types and blade length on merchant ships? I know it read it once years ago from either the USC or CFR…[/QUOTE]

46 U. S. Code 11506

I carry the Boye basic fixed blade knife. This thing goes through line like a hot knife through butter.