Wanna know why I attended Kings Point? It was free.
Wanna know how I put-up with the bull shit regimental system? I had to.
Wanna know how I was able to graduate? Because I’m pertinacious.
Wanna know what I learned from the bull shit regimental system? Nothing ~
The funds they need to end is for congress and the senate. They do nothing so pay them nothing!
[QUOTE=DeckApe;101493]I guess we could federalize everything. Why not incorporate all maritime education under the Feds? We could have KP-California, KP-New York, KP-Maine… a modest proposal I’m sure will please all.[/QUOTE]
I’ll attend KP-Nevada, thank you. There once was a nice little house in Sparks.
I would like to see a well run KP continue to provide high quality cutting edge maritime education. The problem is KP does not even come close to meeting that standard, and it doesn’t look like it ever will.
KP closed GMATS — continuing ed for existing mariners, and none of the state schools offer very much continuing ed for mariners either. Why support a school without continuing ed for existing mariners?
KP does not offer DP training, and neither do any of the state academies. There is no place in the US north of New Orleans that offers DP training, but every maritime school in Canada offers DP training.
KP claims its refocusing its training on the on “brownwater” maritime industry. Really? With no DP training? With no DP crewboats or supply boats for training? With that absurd “new” NASA training ship?
It could be that the best way to reform KP is to close it down for a few years in order to clean house.
I’m afraid that MARAD and the administration at KP are too clueless to be allowed to waste more federal money on its present course. Either run KP right with relevant cutting edge marine education, including continuing education for existing mariners, or stop wasting my tax dollars on it.
This would help eliminate the brain drain with so many exiting the maritime industry. Keep the education relevant and up to date.
And class sizes can be adjusted I suppose.
May be a moot discussion- MarAd lost a lot of money under sequestration.
You know that I am actually sick to death over all this crap which our current Administration is foisting on the Merchant Marine but frankly this reduction by 25% in using US vessels for US AID grain shipments really is a red herring. How many US flagged bulk carriers are there? Not that many…maybe 12? Those ships are not even militarily useful.
Where the real crime is taking place is with the shipping of DoD cargoes on foreign bottoms. This is in direct violation to the Cargo Preference Act of 1904 which states that 100% of all Military related cargoes are to be shipped on US flagged vessels and these are the exact type of ships which are militarily useful. Hell, why not charter some of the Ro/Ro’s from the RRF to carry DoD cargoes using civilian US mariners. Since there is not a capital investment required to be recovered by the operators, why could those ships not be competitive with foreign vessels? The principle costs would only be fuel, wages, maintenance and G&A. I would be better for all parties (except for the foreign operators) to have those ships manned and moving constantly.
Just saying this is what we should talk about here in this thread and leave the KP bullshit out of it. The op/ed by Tony Munoz didn’t even mention the USMMA. What can the US Federal Government do to support a militarily useful US Merchant Marine that will not cost the taxpayers a fortune? That is what we should be discussing.
this is a synopsis of US Cargo Preference Law from MarAd’s website.
Cargo Preference
Welcome to the Maritime Administration’s Office of Cargo Preference and Domestic Trade (Office) web site. The Office’s primary focus is to promote and monitor the use of U.S.-flag vessels in the movement of cargo on international waters. The office is composed of three sections: Agricultural Cargoes, Civilian Agencies, and Military Cargoes. Information related to these three sections may be accessed by the appropriate links below. In addition, links to Government and private entities have been provided for your viewing. However, it should be noted that the Office only accounts for the accuracy of information on its web site.
To fully understand the movement of cargo, let’s first define:
What is Cargo Preference?
The Cargo Preference program works to promote and facilitate a U.S. maritime transportation system that is accessible and efficient in the movement of goods and people. It oversees the administration of and compliance with U.S. cargo preference laws and regulations. Those laws require shippers to use U.S.-flag vessels to transport any government-impelled oceanborne cargoes.
What is Government-impelled cargo?
Government-impelled cargo is cargo that is moving:
Either as a direct result of Federal Government involvement Or, indirectly through financial sponsorship of a Federal program Or, in connection with a guarantee provided by the Federal Government
Why Do We Have Cargo Preference?
To provide a revenue base that will retain and encourage a privately owned and operated U.S.-flag merchant marine because the U.S.-flag merchant marine is a vital resource providing:
Essential sealift capability in wartime or other national emergencies A cadre of skilled seafarers available in time of national emergencies Help to protect United States ocean commerce from total foreign domination and control
What percent of cargo is required to be carried on U.S.-flag vessels?
Military Cargo = 100% (governed by Military Cargo Preference Act of 1904); Export Import Bank = 100% (governed by Public Resolution 17); Civilian Agencies Cargo = at least 50% (governed by Cargo Preference Act of 1954); and Agricultural Cargoes = at least 50% (governed by the Cargo Preference Act of 1954)
[QUOTE=DeckApe;101493]I guess we could federalize everything. Why not incorporate all maritime education under the Feds? We could have KP-California, KP-New York, KP-Maine… a modest proposal I’m sure will please all.
:-)[/QUOTE]
With the way KP had been mismanaged over the last few years it terrifies me to think what the fed would do to the rest of the schools. I have had many KP cadets aboard my ships and from what Alumni and current cadets tell me that place is all messed up. Not all, but some in the faculty and administration have put there own agenda ahead of what should be the ONLY agenda…PRODUCING 3RD MATES AND 3RD ENGINEERS READY TO BEGIN THEIR CAREERS. I believe as others have stated that it really doesn’t matter where you come from but its what you put into the job that creates the sailor.
That being said I am not convinced we really need KP anymore. I have never been a fan of their particular training program. I know I am not the only one who can rarely tell the difference between a KP cadet on his first sea term of his final sea term. Someone here mentioned that there needs to be standardized training…???STCW???. We already have it!
[QUOTE=c.captain;101509]Hell, why not charter some of the Ro/Ro’s from the RRF to carry DoD cargoes using civilian US mariners. Since there is not a capital investment required to be recovered by the operators, why could those ships not be competitive with foreign vessels? The principle costs would only be fuel, wages, maintenance and G&A. I would be better for all parties (except for the foreign operators) to have those ships manned and moving constantly.
[/QUOTE]
That would be a great thing to do, but we are dealing with the penny wise and pound foolish here- the government.
You should see some of the garbage scows the government hires to move cargo under charter. They go through a reflag process at a local shipyard and presto! Moving cargo for Uncle Sam. One you are familiar with: Geysir. There are others, generally in poor condition at the time of reflagging. I was aboard one at an East coast shipyard last week and they are trying to remove cooked-on fuel from the boiler internals (they had a steam heater leak).
[QUOTE=c.captain;101509] Hell, why not charter some of the Ro/Ro’s from the RRF to carry DoD cargoes using civilian US mariners. Since there is not a capital investment required to be recovered by the operators, why could those ships not be competitive with foreign vessels? The principle costs would only be fuel, wages, maintenance and G&A. I would be better for all parties (except for the foreign operators) to have those ships manned and moving constantly.
this is a synopsis of US Cargo Preference Law from MarAd’s website.[/QUOTE]
We did this from 2002 until about 2005-6.
Then:
Astronomically high security costs while transiting the Suez
Cost of activating and continually operating what is mostly a 30 year old fleet
Ease of shipping smaller loads on US commercial ro-ro’s operating on liner service out of EC ports(JAX BIC) as opposed to activating entire ship.
Commercial Ro-Ro is low profile compared to a grey hull.
NAVY EST(security team) required aboard MSC assets transiting choke points such as GIB, Suez and Persian Gulf.
so pretty much $$$$ reasons.
Hi all, this is a test
Kings Point is not even mentioned in this article, but I’ll take the bait:
The Service Academies, in general, have outlived their use. State Schools such as the Maritime Academies, Military Schools (The Citadel, VMI, Texas A&M…), and ROTC are producing more and better officers in their respectful branches than the Federal Academies. Take into account how costly and bureaucratic the Federal Academies are compared to their state counterparts and the answer is clear…get rid of them all. I mean seriously, a million dollars for roads…or a million dollars to educate two future beltway bureaucrats to have posh defense lobby jobs…who, in turn, ship DoD material on foreign vessels?
The Coast Guard Academy needs to go first…assuming the academies should be the first to be cut. Kings Point would make for a nice Condo courtyard , it is, after all, on a nice piece of property. Sad to see such a landmark institution end up in its current dysfunctional state.
Now,pertaining to the actual article; this recent move by Obama just goes to show how you can get away with saying you’re “on the side of the American Worker” while simultaneously stabbing him/her in the back…if no one will call you out on it(that’s you, media).
[QUOTE=c.captain;101509]Hell, why not charter some of the Ro/Ro’s from the RRF to carry DoD cargoes using civilian US mariners. [/QUOTE]
I personally placed that question directly to a Senator who is heralded as one of the USMM’s supporters and got nothing but a dirty look in response.
I would like to see a law that makes it a felony offense to sign a contract to hire a foreign flag ship to carry US military cargo except in time of a declared war when no other option is available.
If the RRF was a campaign contributor and could afford to buy a congress-crook things might be different. The bottom line is that congress is broken, it is crooked, it has no interest in supporting programs that support American who do not or cannot deliver cash for political services.
We can’t even get a single congressman to stand up and ask the question out loud.
[QUOTE=Skiing Salem Sailor;101551]We did this from 2002 until about 2005-6.
Then:
Astronomically high security costs while transiting the Suez
Cost of activating and continually operating what is mostly a 30 year old fleet
Ease of shipping smaller loads on US commercial ro-ro’s operating on liner service out of EC ports(JAX BIC) as opposed to activating entire ship.
Commercial Ro-Ro is low profile compared to a grey hull.
NAVY EST(security team) required aboard MSC assets transiting choke points such as GIB, Suez and Persian Gulf.
so pretty much $$$$ reasons.[/QUOTE]
This is correct, there is lots of space available to the Military in the U.S. flag commercial RO/RO fleet at lower cost including over-sized and heavy cargo. MSC can charter the entire vessel or arrange for either full or partial loads.
[QUOTE=Skiing Salem Sailor;101551]
Astronomically high security costs while transiting the Suez.[/QUOTE]
We are already paying for gunmen in black who are doing nothing but sitting around barracks all over the country. They can just as easily ride a boat for the same cost to the taxpayer.
Cost of activating and continually operating what is mostly a 30 year old fleet .
The cost of sitting in place rusting is equal or even greater.
Ease of shipping smaller loads on US commercial ro-ro’s operating on liner service out of EC ports(JAX BIC) as opposed to activating entire ship…
That is as good as using a gray funnel liner. As long as it has an American flag and American mariners is all that matters … or should to the crooks in congress and the DoD.
Commercial Ro-Ro is low profile compared to a grey hull…
So now we have to hide?
NAVY EST(security team) required aboard MSC assets transiting choke points such as GIB, Suez and Persian Gulf.
so pretty much $$$$ reasons.
See the first lines of this response. We are paying for those people even if we don’t use them. It is not like we have to go out and hire and train security teams every voyage. It is creative accounting to add those costs to each voyage as an excuse to use a foreign flag ship.
It’s only money, just run the printing press!
[QUOTE=SouthernBornOhioBurned;101567]Kings Point is not even mentioned in this article, but I’ll take the bait:
The Service Academies, in general, have outlived their use. State Schools such as the Maritime Academies, Military Schools (The Citadel, VMI, Texas A&M…), and ROTC are producing more and better officers in their respectful branches than the Federal Academies. Take into account how costly and bureaucratic the Federal Academies are compared to their state counterparts and the answer is clear…get rid of them all. I mean seriously, a million dollars for roads…or a million dollars to educate two future beltway bureaucrats to have posh defense lobby jobs…who, in turn, ship DoD material on foreign vessels? [/QUOTE]
This is being mentioned these days, and I agree with you.
[QUOTE=SouthernBornOhioBurned;101567]The Coast Guard Academy needs to go first…assuming the academies should be the first to be cut.[/QUOTE]
Shoot, The Coast Guard Academy is arguably the best of the lot.
[QUOTE=SouthernBornOhioBurned;101567] Kings Point would make for a nice Condo courtyard , it is, after all, on a nice piece of property. Sad to see such a landmark institution end up in its current dysfunctional state. [/QUOTE]
Not to worry, there’s an Army Fellow at the helm these days. 
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;101610]
Shoot, The Coast Guard Academy is arguably the best of the lot.
[/QUOTE]
True, I just think its redundant since a large portion of Kings Pointers become coasties. I’m sure CGA teaches most of the same stuff Kings Point does, without the commercial sea terms. It wouldnt hurt future Coast Guardsmen to at least spend some time with Merchant Marine before they become enforcers and rescuers. Lets not forget that there’s still a few seamen that graduate from KP.
In conclusion, KP and CGA should merge.
All of this is to get rid of the Jones Act. When that happens we All will lose our jobs. I am so tired of hearing people complaining.