Entry Level Jobs?

Professional Mariner Forum
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[QUOTE=catherder;180028]They also don’t hire “scientists” who have to be spoon-fed information that can be had at a mouse click. Did you even do an internship?

It took me 60 seconds to find dozens of jobs- just in federal service- that you could possibly be qualified for. USAJOBS. You should go there, seriously.

I work around scientists. Ok? Guess what. About 5-10 percent of their time is doing “cool shit” like diving marine monuments, playing with ROVs and such. The OTHER 90 percent is research, paperwork, sitting at a computer, studying specimens, reading dry research papers, preparing reports, composing and replying to emails (and these days, scientist emails are heavily scrutinized) etc. It ain’t fucking National Geographic. It ain’t Jacques Cousteau! It’s a lot of drudgery and long days/weeks away from home. On old ships, for the most part, cramped, not all that cozy, in weather that may go south with little notice.

What the hell are they teaching you guys now? I really think some of you watch too much TV because the reality doesn’t line up with your expectations.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know where your perception of my expectations comes from, the only times I mentioned doing “cool shit” were referring to time off (Who doesn’t do cool shit on their time off?). I have a much better idea of what a science job is like than a nautical one. Actually, my main original question was about the SIU Unlicensed Apprentice Program, wondering if it was a good way in, not “How can I has a job?”

And yeah, I’ve done an internship.

42

The year is still young but this post is up there. Love it!!

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Cat, you’re officially my new hero. Great fuckin’ post.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;180027]why are you STILL here? why aren’t you climbing and exploring?

please just go find yourself a mountain, take all your clothes off and leave us grown ups to our professional discussions

800×531 91.3 KB

just look at the rocks he is squatting on…are they sedimentary, metamorphic, or igneous?

NOW BEGONE WITH YOU FROM THIS PLACE FORTHWITH!

.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=catherder;180028]They also don’t hire “scientists” who have to be spoon-fed information that can be had at a mouse click. Did you even do an internship?

It took me 60 seconds to find dozens of jobs- just in federal service- that you could possibly be qualified for. USAJOBS. You should go there, seriously. Go there, and type in “Geologist” and sit back and be amazed.

I work around scientists. Ok? Guess what. About 5-10 percent of their time is doing “cool shit” like diving marine monuments, playing with ROVs and such. The OTHER 90 percent is research, paperwork, sitting at a computer, studying specimens, reading dry research papers, preparing reports, composing and replying to emails (and these days, scientist emails are heavily scrutinized) etc. It ain’t fucking National Geographic. It ain’t Jacques Cousteau! It’s a lot of drudgery and long days/weeks away from home. On old ships, for the most part, cramped, not all that cozy, with one or more roommates, in weather that may go south with little notice.

What the hell are they teaching you guys now? I really think some of you watch too much TV because the reality doesn’t line up with your expectations.

Jaysus H. F. Keerist on a popsicle stick. If I were young like you and had my degree, I’d be slaying dragons.[/QUOTE]

Good one, Cat, you said what we were all thinking…fucking kids these days…

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If you are talking about piney point program and then shipping out, you are talking about something similar to alternate prison sentences that can last 4 to 8 months. You may get a job and expect to be gone 4 months but end up working 8 months because the ship doesn’t end up coming back to the states and the company is not going to fly your replacement to Bangladesh. Quit in Bangladesh because you want to go climb mountains and you may get black listed from that company. The time off can be cool but you have to ask yourself if you can handle 4-8 months away from society, it is not all about weather you like the time off, you have to ask yourself if you can do the time"on"… You might get lucky and end up on the ship with a bunch of cool people, or they might all have the attitude that you have already witnessed some of on this site.
And going to piney point as an educated college kid? Are you white too? If you want to get through there you have to have thick skin, very thick skin. It is not a program that is designed to be “nice and easy”. Not rainbows and butterflies, your classmates will be in charge of you and they choose who will be in charge based on who has been in the military or who has done time in jail.

I went through the program when I was fairly young, and after I got out I came accross an AB who had went through it in her 40’s. Her own words were something along the lines of “it was the most f*ed up thing she had ever done/experienced/been through in her entire life”.

I guess you can decide if you want to go there. Stick with your field or just apply directly to research vessels. If you do decide that piney point is the only way just remember that it lasts over a yearand you won’t be making money or getting time off.Also your first job after a year of that program will be entry level. Entry level, as in the same job you can get from applying directly with a research vessel as on O.S. or wiper.

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[QUOTE=Adventurer;180032]I don’t know where your perception of my expectations comes from, the only times I mentioned doing “cool shit” were referring to time off (Who doesn’t do cool shit on their time off?). I have a much better idea of what a science job is like than a nautical one. Actually, my main original question was about the SIU Unlicensed Apprentice Program, wondering if it was a good way in, not “How can I has a job?”

And yeah, I’ve done an internship.[/QUOTE]

OK, so you got a degree, and you’re not too happy with your major, sure, it happens. Now you want to know about the SIU program? Do a search on the forums.
First part is a BS boot-camp which is not anything nearly as professional as the real military. You are going to pay to play this game and then you will find yourself stuck in some place with a 20 y/o kid with a GED screaming cuss words in ur face cuz’ someone made him the “boss” for the next 3 months. Are you ready for that? And they gladly tell you at the SIU school, there is the gate, leave ANY F-ing time you want. In fact, they make money if you stay or go, so they don’t give a damn if you do leave. Best part? Doing 18 hour days in the galley, working for free.

Don’t worry, you get to do some “cool-stuff” like sit in a class for two weeks that in any other maritime school would take 2 days cause it has been dumbed down so that even folks with limited English skills can pass. And after all of that “fun” you can go to your 2nd-phase ship. You will work your ass off for 90 days which will probably be more, some lucky folks got to do as much as 130 days or more cause you gotta get 90 days, not 89 or whatever, so if that means another 40 or 60 days at 30 bucks a day, so be it.

You might actually get 30 days in each department. Or you might get 10 days each in 2 departments and get stuck in the 3rd one for most of your time. You will be expected to do as much work (or more) than the others while making starvation “wages”.

Maybe after a year and half of jumping through flaming hoops, you can ship out in some entry-level gig. See exotic places like Valdez, Alaska in the dead of winter or maybe a rust-bucket food aid ship down the coast of Africa in the middle of June.

FYI- The other posters are correct, you gotta have a thick skin and stand-up to non-stop BS to make it in this industry.

If you really want to do this, STOP posting on this forum and go DO it! Then please come back here and show all the nay-sayers they were wrong about you, and you got your qualified rating(s) and some salt spray in your face, and that is something all of us would respect.

Seriously, good luck in your life and hope you figure it out. But sorry, the days of just going down to the local USCG REC, getting a MMD in a few days and then lucking out on a pier-head jump at the hall are long, long gone. That ship sailed years ago and sorry, it ain’t coming back to port.

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[QUOTE=cajaya;180053]If you are talking about piney point program and then shipping out, you are talking about something similar to alternate prison sentences that can last 4 to 8 months. You may get a job and expect to be gone 4 months but end up working 8 months because the ship doesn’t end up coming back to the states and the company is not going to fly your replacement to Bangladesh. Quit in Bangladesh because you want to go climb mountains and you may get black listed from that company. The time off can be cool but you have to ask yourself if you can handle 4-8 months away from society, it is not all about weather you like the time off, you have to ask yourself if you can do the time"on"… You might get lucky and end up on the ship with a bunch of cool people, or they might all have the attitude that you have already witnessed some of on this site.
And going to piney point as an educated college kid? Are you white too? If you want to get through there you have to have thick skin, very thick skin. It is not a program that is designed to be “nice and easy”. Not rainbows and butterflies, your classmates will be in charge of you and they choose who will be in charge based on who has been in the military or who has done time in jail.

I went through the program when I was fairly young, and after I got out I came accross an AB who had went through it in her 40’s. Her own words were something along the lines of “it was the most f*ed up thing she had ever done/experienced/been through in her entire life”.

I guess you can decide if you want to go there. Stick with your field or just apply directly to research vessels. If you do decide that piney point is the only way just remember that it lasts over a yearand you won’t be making money or getting time off.Also your first job after a year of that program will be entry level. Entry level, as in the same job you can get from applying directly with a research vessel as on O.S. or wiper.[/QUOTE]

Good summary of the SIU program and shipping out with the SIU. Thanks!

47

[QUOTE=SaltySailor;180119]… Best part? Doing 18 hour days in the galley, working for [B]free[/B].

… You will be expected to do as much work (or more) than the others while making starvation “wages”.

Maybe after a year and half of jumping through flaming hoops, you can ship out in some entry-level gig. See exotic places like Valdez, Alaska in the dead of winter or maybe a rust-bucket food aid ship down the coast of Africa in the middle of June.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it’s not totally for free. In Phase 1, you get $20/week. You can also pick up various jobs which pays extra. Gate Guard pays $55/week doing 3.5hrs/day (sitting in an a/c cabin with a refrigerator coffee machine and a microwave and watching tv). Library Monitor (just sitting in a chair, surfing the internet and/or studying for 2.5hrs/day) gets you $30/wk. Preparing night lunch (takes all of 10mins) gets you, I think, $20/wk. There are other jobs available like Gym Monitor, etc., all 10 min jobs and paying around $20 or $30/wk (I forget as it’s been some time for me). Being the Bosun ($75), President ($50), etc are all paying positions. In the Phase 3, you get $30/wk plus what you make from the jobs. If you don’t spend anything, you can leave Phase 1 and Phase 3 with at least $600 in your pocket.

I don’t know what you mean by starvation wages, as an SIU Apprentice gets what an academy cadet gets. $33.90/day + another $32/day as OT ($8x4hrs). So, that’s $65.90/day for 90 days or whatever. In Phase 4, you get the full union contract rate on that ship, including vacation pay.

The total 5 Phases gets you 360 days of sea time and you leave with an AB endorsement.

I’ll agree that Phase 1 is mostly BS and what you and Cajaya said about having a thick skin for Phase 1 is mostly right. If you’re put on a coastal ship, you leave on 91st day. The extra days happen if you’re put on a ship which sails abroad and which for the most part, Piney Point tries to avoid as that’s where most of the Phase 4 students go.

It takes more than a year, because:

The gap between Phase 1 and Phase 2 is around 2 weeks (it does take time for PP to get you a ship and for the ship to come to port so that you can board.
The gap between Phase 2 and Phase 3 is a month (Depending on how soon you complete Phase 2, how fast you send in your sea project and when is the next class scheduled (Every alternate month)
The gap between Phase 4 and Phase 5 is upto you. You have 1 year to sign up for the next P5 class.

It’s not all that bad and no, Cajaya did not give a good summary and a good picture. I find it amusing that the 40yo complainer is a “she” and did not upgrade, preferring to keep on sailing as an AB. PP offers free classes and an AB to Mate program and not to mention graduating with a B card. So, how’s that fucked up comparing to paying $$$ for all classes out of your pocket, trying to get on a ship as a C card and getting 360 days sea time to become an AB v/s staying a career AB & falsely bitching?

Edit: It’s not 18hrs/day in the galley, but more like 15hrs/day. The first part is during the last 16 days of month 1. In between you get atleast 2hrs of rest time and theoretically, you can finish by 1900, but with so much time wasting going on, you finish close to 2015 and that’s how it turns to 16hrs. Galley starts at 0445 hrs. The second part is the first 14days in the 3rd month. Same routine, except that it goes faster and no breaks. Break time is used for compulsory gym and union ed (where most dozed away) The only hard work in the galley is washing pots and pans in the pit and cleaning the ice cream machine. Else, all you’re doing is mopping and assisting the cooks & chefs in dicing and prepping and serving the food line. What’s so hard about that?

1 Like
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[QUOTE=smoker;180130]I don’t know what you mean by starvation wages, as an SIU Apprentice gets what an academy cadet gets. $33.90/day + another $32/day as OT ($8x4hrs). So, that’s $65.90/day for 90 days or whatever.[/QUOTE]

You do 4 hours of OT every day you’re onboard? Really? Regardless, cadet wages are starvation wages, except that the company is feeding you. You must have really drunk the Kool-Aid if you’re defending those wages as not being ridiculously low.

[QUOTE=smoker;180130]I find it amusing that the 40yo complainer is a “she” and did not upgrade, preferring to keep on sailing as an AB. PP offers free classes and an AB to Mate program and not to mention graduating with a B card. [/QUOTE]

The vast majority of Union members are career ABs, so you’re insulting the whole union. Not everyone can move up, not everyone wants to move up, and if everyone did there wouldn’t be enough jobs for them all. (Not to mention it would drive officer pay down.)

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;180131]You do 4 hours of OT every day you’re onboard? Really? Regardless, cadet wages are starvation wages, except that the company is feeding you. You must have really drunk the Kool-Aid if you’re defending those wages as not being ridiculously low.

  1. Yes. All apprentices get 4hrs OT per day. That’s a fact.

  2. How much do you want while learning?

The vast majority of Union members are career ABs, so you’re insulting the whole union. Not everyone can move up, not everyone wants to move up, and if everyone did there wouldn’t be enough jobs for them all. (Not to mention it would drive officer pay down.)[/QUOTE]

  1. If you want to be a career AB and not advance as you don’t want responsibilities, that’s fine. But then, don’t whine and bitch about it, giving false narratives. I am insulting her “example” and NOT the whole union. Nice try.

  2. So, that’s why you are standing up to career ABs? Because you’re worried that they’ll drive your pay scale down? What about all cadets that graduate? They won’t drive your pay scales down? Or that’s ok 'coz they they are not hawsepipers?

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There hasn’t been much of a cost of living adjustment in those PP wages since I was there in 91. I was the library monitor and back then it was $20 a week. Just enough for a couple of cartons of cowboy killers at the slop chest. The only perk was the combo TV/VCR units for watching “training” films to kill time. I liked the old program better you do 90 days in prison then get your first ship. Get your time and immediately go back an upgrade to AB/QMED.After that you fight it out in the hall with the rest of the cons.

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Many Cadets graduating don’t sail, or don’t for very long, so they really don’t drive down wages, as compared to hawsepipers that get a license; they typically sail on a license after earning it the hard way.

I’m not saying they do drive down wages, but they would more than academy punks would for the sake of arguement.

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;180134]There hasn’t been much of a cost of living adjustment in those PP wages since I was there in 91. I was the library monitor and back then it was $20 a week. Just enough for a couple of cartons of cowboy killers at the slop chest. The only perk was the combo TV/VCR units for watching “training” films to kill time. I liked the old program better you do 90 days in prison then get your first ship. Get your time and immediately go back an upgrade to AB/QMED.After that you fight it out in the hall with the rest of the cons.[/QUOTE]

Library Asst gets paid $30 (I think and could be higher, but not lower) now. As for cost of living adjustments, the prices of candies, etc in the Sea Chest are practically the same. Everything else is free.

From what I’ve heard, the program is designed taking into consideration the inputs received from the shipping lines. Phase 3 is advanced tanker classes + advanced fire fighting, etc. Phase 1 has been dumbed down because of too many Spanish only speaking students. Not to mention other nationalities, who find it hard to grasp the differences between port & stbd, athwartship, the various terms of ship construction and not to mention knots. If you know English and reasonably intelligent, then it’s a breeze.

To overcome this, PP has started English & Maths classes, besides helping these folks get their GED for free.

I do agree that Phase 1 is mostly BS as it could be done faster, but the program is also designed to give you 360 days ofsea time, so that also extends the Phase 1 class. Phase 3 is 7 weeks of studying.

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[QUOTE=z-drive;180135] I’m not saying they do drive down wages, but they would more than academy punks would for the sake of arguement.[/QUOTE]

Can you show with empirical evidence how hawsepipers have driven down pay scales? If not, then your statement is full of BS. Where are the ships and the available billets to fill them?

What’s affecting pay scales is competition from FoC flagged ships of US, pseudo lapel pinned, owned fleet cos and their directors. Cos like Gener8 Maritime Inc which recently took delivery of a VLCC, Gener8 Hera, flagged in Marshall Islands, and then proudly call themselves an US co on their website. What! No US mariner available to work on an oil tanker? Not to mention other cos. And unions. When has the union fought for the US mariner earnings being tax free, like other countries, and enabling us to be more competitive in the job market & look for jobs? When have we lobbied as a collective group, fighting for our “collective” interests? All we do is fight amongst ourselves and bring down our own pay scales. Don’t blame the hawsepiper alone for that. He has as much right to upgrade himself and search for a job as an academy graduate has. Live with that fact.

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[QUOTE=smoker;180140]Can you show with empirical evidence how hawsepipers have driven down pay scales? If not, then your statement is full of BS.[/QUOTE]

Your reading comprehension is lacking. He said, “I’m not saying they do drive down wages.”

Many academy grads don’t sail and of those that do many don’t sail for long. Hawsepipers are more likely to sail for a career.

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[QUOTE=smoker;180132]3. If you want to be a career AB and not advance as you don’t want responsibilities, that’s fine. But then, don’t whine and bitch about it, giving false narratives. I am insulting her “example” and NOT the whole union. Nice try.[/QUOTE]

First of all, you obviously misread her example, this seems to be a trend with you. The AB in question went through the program in her 40’s, cajaya gave no indication of how long this person has been out of the program and working. See below:

[QUOTE=cajaya;180053]after I got out I came accross an AB who had went through it in her 40’s. Her own words were something along the lines of “it was the most f*ed up thing she had ever done/experienced/been through in her entire life”.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=smoker;180132]4. So, that’s why you are standing up to career ABs? Because you’re worried that they’ll drive your pay scale down? What about all cadets that graduate? They won’t drive your pay scales down? Or that’s ok 'coz they they are not hawsepipers?[/QUOTE]

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it? I was simply saying that every deckhand can’t advance because there aren’t that many officer jobs available. Plus, ships need deckhands. The pay thing was simply a reference to supply and demand: if every mariner had a license then Mate jobs would likely pay the same as, or maybe less than, AB jobs. I never said I was worried about this though because we all know most deckhands are going to stay deckhands. You were the one with uunfair criticism of career deckhands.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;180141]Your reading compensation is lacking. He said, “I’m not saying they do drive down wages.”

Many academy grads don’t sail and of those that do many don’t sail for long. Hawsepipers are more likely to sail for a career.[/QUOTE]

Seems like YOUR reading “comprehension” is lacking. I am not being compensated for fucking anything.

He also indirectly blamed, including you, haswepipers bringing down pay scales. I know 3Ms, 2Ms and CMs with Captains’ licenses sailing & waiting for a Captains’ billet. They don’t affect your pay scale and a hawsepiper does? Get over your fucking self. You’re as replaceable by these guys as from a hawsepiper with a Capt.'s lic.

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No, my spell check is lacking, not my reading comprehension.

Dude, NO ONE BLAMED HAWSEPIPERS FOR BRINGING DOWN WAGES.

All I said was if EVERY deckhand got a license it would bring wages down. That has never happened and will never happen so no one is blaming hawsepipers for anything or afraid that it will ever happen.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;180142]First of all, you obviously misread her example, this seems to be a trend with you. The AB in question went through the program in her 40’s, cajaya gave no indication of how long this person has been out of the program and working. See below:

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it? I was simply saying that every deckhand can’t advance because there aren’t that many officer jobs available. Plus, ships need deckhands. The pay thing was simply a reference to supply and demand: if every mariner had a license then Mate jobs would likely pay the same as, or maybe less than, AB jobs. I never said I was worried though because most deckhands are going to stay deckhands, I was just pointing out your unfair criticism of career deckhands.[/QUOTE]

Ever find it strange that all of Cajaya’s examples are all females? As a deep sea sailor, how many women have you come across sailing deep sea? 1 in 5 ships? 1 in 10 ships? None? All she ever does on this board is whine, complain and be negative. How many SIU school threads have you come across on this website, being positive of the opportunities that it offers, with the glass half full attitude? All I have come across are threads being whiny and negative. I know ABs who have sent their sons to PP. They’re all fools, right? I have sailed and still sail. I have yet to come across any AB regretting PP. All they do is jocularly complain how the current generation has it easy compared to them.

Reading comprehension is more than taking things at face value, Captain. You were the one showing insecurity by mentioning pay scales.

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[QUOTE=smoker;180140]Can you show with empirical evidence how hawsepipers have driven down pay scales? If not, then your statement is full of BS. Where are the ships and the available billets to fill them?
[/QUOTE]

Hey, you’re an idiot.

I clearly said:

I’m not saying they do drive down wages, but they would more than academy punks would for the sake of arguement.

context of said arguement is for the sake of arguement, 9/10 hawespipers who get a license sail on it whereas (for agurment only, not hard data) 4/10 academy kids who get a license sail on it. who actually sails on the new shiny license more?

if anything, its a complement to hawsepipers.

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[QUOTE=smoker;180145]I know ABs who have sent their sons to PP. They’re all fools, right?[/QUOTE]

If they are happy with that decision then good for them, I have no opinion of the school one way or the other.

[QUOTE=smoker;180145]You were the one showing insecurity by mentioning pay scales.[/QUOTE]

No insecurity. It was a comment made in jest, I’m not worried that every deckhand is going to suddenly get a license and drive wages down.