I would always like at least one “get home” engine without computer inter-phase. All Cat 3500 engines have injectors controlled by computer. I think every boat or ship should have an engine you can manually control (fuel rack setting) as an emergency engine to get back to port. Also against an EMP weapon used against the US.
Isn’t that the truth, Too bad steam is gone!
I totally agree! I never liked the idea of having alarm points that “Could / Would” shut down either a Ship Service Generator or Main Engine.
One company that I worked for years ago disabled the Low Lube Oil Pressure Shut Downs on the Woodward Governors on the EMD Main Engines. Their way of thinking was the only way it would be shut down was if an Engineer did it. We used to hook them back up to pass ABS but disconnected them right after on orders of the Port Engineer. I had it in writing and kept that letter with my License, just in case.
“I’m sorry Dave, I can not do that. Dave, Dave, don’t do that Dave.”
Then there was this Air Bus falling out of the sky.
For members who are confused with my replies, I offer this:
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98476]Then there was this Air Bus falling out of the sky.[/QUOTE]
Ironicly 2 of the salvage jobs I have been on in the last 10 years has been to go out and pick up the pieces of an Airbus A-320 that fell out of the sky. I get scared every time I have to fly on one of those things.
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98468]I would always like at least one “get home” engine without computer inter-phase. All Cat 3500 engines have injectors controlled by computer. I think every boat or ship should have an engine you can manually control (fuel rack setting) as an emergency engine to get back to port. Also against an EMP weapon used against the US.[/QUOTE]
Yes sir I totally agree with you. The old mechanical fuel injectors had one big advantage, as long as you had fuel they would run. No battery to control the ECM to control the fuel infectors, that gets it’s info from 98 different sensors. To bad the EPA don’t thnk that way. I miss the old smokers that we can no longer have.
[QUOTE=Tugs;98472]I totally agree! I never liked the idea of having alarm points that “Could / Would” shut down either a Ship Service Generator or Main Engine.
One company that I worked for years ago disabled the Low Lube Oil Pressure Shut Downs on the Woodward Governors on the EMD Main Engines. Their way of thinking was the only way it would be shut down was if an Engineer did it. We used to hook them back up to pass ABS but disconnected them right after on orders of the Port Engineer. I had it in writing and kept that letter with my License, just in case.[/QUOTE]
All this come from the idea of the ultimate goal of having an engineer-less cost saving engine room that is fully automated. Automation is a wonderful thing and takes the human error out of many things but if the shit really hits the fan, as it will sooner or later, someone with a brain is going to have to make a decision. Now if the only brain around is a “motorman” or an “engineer/mechanic” who has never run a plant manually then you will be well and truly screwed. There situations with all these ingredients out there now waiting for that turd. Wonder if Carnival had a feces in the fan issue the other day???
When ever I’ve gone to a new boat first thing I ask is what happens when the computer is broke? Things get “old school” real quick when your drifting in the dark. I won’t hesitate to go 1980 in a heartbeat. I’m a little nervous about these new boats we’re building. When I was at the automation school we spent some time going over blackout recovery mode. I’m sitting there thinking I’m gonna just have to stand here and wait for the computer to go into the start sequence and put the lights back on? So what happens during that 3-4 minutes if it doesn’t work. In that time I coulda started one manually and reset the breakers. Instead we spent 3-4 minutes bashing into the side of the drillship.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;98486]When ever I’ve gone to a new boat first thing I ask is what happens when the computer is broke? Things get “old school” real quick when your drifting in the dark. I won’t hesitate to go 1980 in a heartbeat. I’m a little nervous about these new boats we’re building. When I was at the automation school we spent some time going over blackout recovery mode. I’m sitting there thinking I’m gonna just have to stand here and wait for the computer to go into the start sequence and put the lights back on? So what happens during that 3-4 minutes if it doesn’t work. In that time I coulda started one manually and reset the breakers. Instead we spent 3-4 minutes bashing into the side of the drillship.[/QUOTE]
Don’t want to make you nervous but the drillship has the same blackout recovery mode and it bashes harder. The electrical guys have to figure out why it is not working if it ever doesn’t and it is not something that is tested by ABS, DNV or anyone else that I am aware of during FMEA tests. All they check is DP III capability according to the specs that they and the builders wrote. Now when things cascade as they will eventually some day and you become DP 00, what happens? Yes I know the idea behind DP III but has anyone ever had ABS, DNV another classification society or even MODUSPEC go trick the blackout recovery system to see if the engineers can get it back on line manually?
[QUOTE=tengineer;98489]Don’t want to make you nervous but the drillship has the same blackout recovery mode and it bashes harder. The electrical guys have to figure out why it is not working if it ever doesn’t and it is not something that is tested by ABS, DNV or anyone else that I am aware of during FMEA tests. All they check is DP III capability according to the specs that they and the builders wrote. Now when things cascade as they will eventually some day and you become DP 00, what happens? Yes I know the idea behind DP III but has anyone ever had ABS, DNV another classification society or even MODUSPEC go trick the blackout recovery system to see if the engineers can get it back on line manually?[/QUOTE]
Every FMEA that Noble Denton has ever done for us they have made me black this bitch out at sea. Just for there amusment I guess. That is usually when we destroy things. One time I had a motor starter cabnit for a steering pump blow completly off the bulk head when I closed the breaker on the first generator and the power just come back up.
The FMEA we did just a couple months ago, I lost a 24 volt power supply to one of my VFD’s and could not get the VFD back up with out changing the power supply, that was close to 30 minutes not just 3 or 4.
I hate blacking a boat out offshore, with every bone in my body, especially when some idiot that won’t listen to you is telling you must do this or else
[QUOTE=ChiefRob;98493]Every FMEA that Noble Denton has ever done for us they have made me black this bitch out at sea. Just for there amusment I guess. That is usually when we destroy things. One time I had a motor starter cabnit for a steering pump blow completly off the bulk head when I closed the breaker on the first generator and the power just come back up.
The FMEA we did just a couple months ago, I lost a 24 volt power supply to one of my VFD’s and could not get the VFD back up with out changing the power supply, that was close to 30 minutes not just 3 or 4.
I hate blacking a boat out offshore, with every bone in my body, especially when some idiot that won’t listen to you is telling you must do this or else[/QUOTE]
Blacking out at sea is how it must be done. Every time it doesn’t work is “supposed to” effect changes. You know you can’t go thru life wondering if this stuff is going to work or not, you have to know it will but as you know it does not work quite often and when it does not work the electrical/engineer folks are quite simply not prepared to handle it in a timely manner many times. It is not due to any fault of their own but a lack of commitment to training and the expense involved in that training. Bottom line is this. If it works well enough once to get on contract then that is all that matters. They figured that if you keep piling on redundancy surely enough would be left running to maintain position at least when tested.
The complexity of the equipment has not been matched by the training. It cost a lot to send people to these advanced electrical and electronics troubleshooting schools some of which take weeks when all is said and done. Then drills must be held just as lifeboat or any other life saving drills are done because after all we are talking about saving lives if things get bad enough and they will.
You guys know the story of the control room run by the man and a dog right? The dog is there to make sure the man doesn’t touch anything and the man is there to feed the dog
Used to be a sign in Sealand Expedition console:
Achtung Dumkoff ! Das Machine ist nigt fer mittengrabbin. Keepund yur handz unt yur poketz und relaxen und vatchen das blinkin litz.
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98604]Used to be a sign in Sealand Expedition console:
Achtung Dumkoff ! Das Machine ist nigt fer mittengrabbin. Keepund yur handz unt yur poketz und relaxen und vatchen das blinkin litz.[/QUOTE]
Was this in Spanish also ~ Oh, I can be so bad. 
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98604]Used to be a sign in Sealand Expedition console:
Achtung Dumkoff ! Das Machine ist nigt fer mittengrabbin. Keepund yur handz unt yur poketz und relaxen und vatchen das blinkin litz.[/QUOTE]
Geez, I saw that over 35 years ago. I had forgotten about it. Funny…
Another good sign was on the Keystone tanker Chestnut Hill on the emergency generator:
A machines inability to start is directly proportional to it’s need.
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98604]Used to be a sign in Sealand Expedition console:
Achtung Dumkoff ! Das Machine ist nigt fer mittengrabbin. Keepund yur handz unt yur poketz und relaxen und vatchen das blinkin litz.[/QUOTE]
The CHARLOTTE LYKES (or was in the MARGARET, on of the old German ships) had that same sign in the control room.
[QUOTE=cmakin;98649]The CHARLOTTE LYKES (or was in the MARGARET, on of the old German ships) had that same sign in the control room.[/QUOTE]
Don’t recall keep your hands in your pocket and relax, watch the lights blink, but I do remember ABHITZEKESSEL, among all the other tags. I worked the Charlotte with the good old pig farmer from Oregon. He was a dam fine Chief. Ah, those good old Bremerhaven days!