My rig is in the process of switching over to having DPO’s run not just the DP system but the entire VMS which includes all power management and standing the engineering watch. I know this is done on many drillships that have k-chief. The only caveat is the on most drillships i have worked on there is a separate console down in the ECR where the engineers can take control should the situation warrant it. Well my rig does not have k-chief and consequently the ECR is located on the bridge. There is a small repeater/slave panel down in the mechanical spaces that can be used to view but not edit the VMS. My question is whether or not there are any regulations that state that DPO’s are qualified to do this or if we still need an engineer. I have looked through the CFR’s as well as MODU code and have not found anything concrete. Any help on shedding light on this situation would be much appreciated.
My rig is in the process of switching over to having DPO’s run not just the DP system but the entire VMS which includes all power management and standing the engineering watch. I know this is done on many drillships that have k-chief. The only caveat is the on most drillships i have worked on there is a separate console down in the ECR where the engineers can take control should the situation warrant it. Well my rig does not have k-chief and consequently the ECR is located on the bridge. There is a small repeater/slave panel down in the mechanical spaces that can be used to view but not edit the VMS. My question is whether or not there are any regulations that state that DPO’s are qualified to do this or if we still need an engineer. I have looked through the CFR’s as well as MODU code and have not found anything concrete. Any help on shedding light on this situation would be much appreciated.[/QUOTE]
This is one of the most idiotic proposed change in operational structures I have ever heard of. I’d find it hard to believe to be legal, but O & G makes up its own rules. This would be like putting the DP console of an OSV in the ECR and having mates and engineers standing watch in the same room. The mates can just do everything by CCTV.
Having said that…
Did you get a pay raise for all your newly granted responsibilities?
Does your employer provide nooses, or do you have to supply your own?
This is perfectly legal and common practice on many drilling rigs. I would say the ratio is a little more than 50%. The DPO’s always fight this. It does take a little training and mechanical understanding, but the DPO’s should already be fully functional on the power management system. If not then now is the time to step it up. DPO’s already have a premium of their licensed engineering staff by more than 20%, so “no” their will be no pay raise for this added duty. Love it or leave it.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;155892]This is perfectly legal and common practice on many drilling rigs. I would say the ratio is a little more than 50%. The DPO’s always fight this. It does take a little training and mechanical understanding, but the DPO’s should already be fully functional on the power management system. If not then now is the time to step it up. DPO’s already have a premium of their licensed engineering staff by more than 20%, so “no” their will be no pay raise for this added duty. Love it or leave it.[/QUOTE]
Legalities aside, DP Mates “standing the engineering watch” was all I needed to hear. Nothing ambiguous about that.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;155898]DP Mates “standing the engineering watch” was all I needed to hear. Nothing ambiguous about that.[/QUOTE]
A little less Facebook and a little more work. It is perfectly acceptable. They don’t have to go overhaul an engine. They just have to monitor the systems and know who to call and what to do in any emergency. In a real situation most times everything is run from the bridge anyway. The only thing I do not like about it is it really takes some of the competency away from the ERO’s. Since they are not in the system as much as before they get a little rusty after years of this being in place.
We tried this for a short time on a rig I worked on. The decision was made out of the blue to give the DPO’s control of the ECR and the Engineers stayed in contact via radio. It actually worked fairly well until we blacked out one afternoon. We were in transit and not latched up so it wasn’t a major crisis. The blackout was not fault of the DPO’s but the company shortly thereafter reversed its decision to operate the PMS via the bridge. The grey area with this mode of operation is who’s license is at risk if there is some type of catastrophe. (Mate in control of PMS or Engineer on duty?) No one seemed to have an answer to that question.
These companies truly think that the extensive automation on board these modern rigs will never fail and incidents will never happen.
[QUOTE=FWE;155900]We tried this for a short time on a rig I worked on. The decision was made out of the blue to give the DPO’s control of the ECR and the Engineers stayed in contact via radio. It actually worked fairly well until we blacked out one afternoon. We were in transit and not latched up so it wasn’t a major crisis. The blackout was not fault of the DPO’s but the company shortly thereafter reversed its decision to operate the PMS via the bridge. The grey area with this mode of operation is who’s license is at risk if there is some type of catastrophe. (Mate in control of PMS or Engineer on duty?) No one seemed to have an answer to that question.
These companies truly think that the extensive automation on board these modern rigs will never fail and incidents will never happen.[/QUOTE]
And that is exactly the type of scenario that is cause for concern.
As far as whose license is accountable… I’ll wager both get thrown under the bus. At the end of the day neither one is Drilling Dept.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;155899]A little less Facebook and a little more work. It is perfectly acceptable. They don’t have to go overhaul an engine. They just have to monitor the systems and know who to call and what to do in any emergency. In a real situation most times everything is run from the bridge anyway. The only thing I do not like about it is it really takes some of the competency away from the ERO’s. Since they are not in the system as much as before they get a little rusty after years of this being in place.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t proficiency and familiarity with your own craft, especially your own specific equipment, what’s most important at the end of the day?
As in I agree 100% on that last part.
Farming out (so to speak) more and more monitoring/operation of PMS to persons who are not engineers IMO is just asking for trouble.
What is really lacking in the industry in regards to these PMS systems is decent “hands on” training that deals with black out recovery. Kongsberg, GE, etc all have the 1 week schools which supposedly teach you how to operate / manipulate their systems. The problem is you can’t get any rig specific training since 99% of the time the rig is in service and the opportunity doesn’t present itself to shut down an engine or put a system in “manual” and actually see what happens.
Anyone who at some point worked in the “non drilling” sector of the Merchant Marine more than likely went through a few blackouts, loss of propulsion, etc. and gained valuable experience during those situations. That really is non existing on the modern drill ships.
Diesel electric psv’s have the same issue, dpo has the panel beside the dp console.
I can see it happening more and more, engineers are for break fix and pm’s, the dpo’s are there to look at screens 24/7
If a dpo needs more thrusters do you call the propulsion department
Do you put a copy of the dp console in the ecr then the eng can be 100% responsible for propulsion power?
You have noticed that aircraft cockpits only have 2 guys in them these days?
I think this should be switched around. Engineers should be running the DP system and the ECR. And mates should only be brought aboard for transits. My 2 cents.
The biggest issue I have is that automation is not foolproof nor are alarms always acknowledged and followed up on properly if they are only read on the bridge. You need someone in an ECR to go investigate them timely or really bad shit results which we all have witnessed. When a HAL9000 system is developed for rigs that requires no human intervention to complete all necessary functions flawlessly then the unmanned ER will make sense but this old crusty fart of a mariner would be very glad not to sail on any such vessel.
Daisy, Daisy…the thruster trunk is filling fast…I’m half crazy thinking that this can’t last
I’m confused, “if the dpo needs more thrusters” what does this mean? If you’re on DP and need more thrusters the computer makes that command the dpo nor the engineer have nothing to do with it. If all gens are not online already the PMS will initiate auto start. If your PMS does not have a demand auto start feature then good practice would be to have everything running all the time. Seems you would still want someone down below monitoring everything in real time. We still have someone making a round from the machinery space to the thruster compartment every half hour. There is no way to smell, hear or feel though a camera system.
The latest trend due to the financial cut backs is to minimize the motorman position to the bare minimum called out by the minimum manning requirements. So much for rounding! The typical Gen VI drill ship is already understaffed in the engine department especially if you have a manned ECR. Better hope that camera system is looking in all the right places.
Just plain stupid not to have even one guy down in the basement watching things. Imagine the congressional hearings trying to explain that a mate with no engineering background is monitoring the machinery via computer and video camera. It’s all well and good when the automation works but you still need someone to be in the space and trained to restore power manually.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;155936]Just plain stupid not to have even one guy down in the basement watching things. Imagine the congressional hearings trying to explain that a mate with no engineering background is monitoring the machinery via computer and video camera. It’s all well and good when the automation works but you still need someone to be in the space and trained to restore power manually.[/QUOTE]
You hit the nail on the head! Until something major happens, no one is going to take notice. If and when it does, you will see another massive change in the industry.
I still think part of the answer is trying to find a viable training solution that will educate the Engineers (and DPO’s) on how to deal with a blackout situation. The current classes really do not focus on this aspect. They are more concerned with trending and basic power management. Even is the OEM training starts to shift in that direction you will still need to figure out a way to get “rig specific” training. Good luck with that!
When you experience a loss of power that the automation could not correct you are most likely dealing with a situation that might not be that simple to rectify. (i.e. clogged fuel strainer) That is when you hope your ETO’s and Electricians know their business.
If the person can’t run the plant manually they have no business being the OICEW. If all you have is an electrician standing watch over diesel gens and their ancillary equipment you’ve fucked up even more. Please tell me this isn’t the norm on a rig? It sounds like a large excursion in bad wx with an unintentional disconnect waiting to happen. Bad cement jobs and pissing contests almost did us in the last time. This is just gross negligence that will lead to a permatorium.
Edit
I forgot to mention the viable training option you desire should already be in place. I do my manual blackout recovery in conjunction with the emergency generator test. The only way that thing kicks on is if you’re in the dark and if it stays on longer than a minute or two the computer has failed to recover. Then someone better be standing their ready to flip switches, push buttons and cycle breakers.
ECR should always be manned by at least 1 warm body, automation is not 100% full proof and until that fact is guaranteed in some form of a contract putting VMS/PMS in most DPO’s hands is asinine. We have all seen it first hand, we have all worked with those people who have seemed to scratch a lotto ticket and were given the option of cash or a DP cert and a Lic. And lucky you, you are now standing watch with that incompetent lotto winner!
In regards to actual training that shows one how to re act to a situation instead of 3-5 days of just clicking buttons leaving you brain dead at the end of the week… I heard from a guy I had worked with in the past that a new training center is being opened somewhere in New York, and the classes will be taught by current Mariners( DPO’s and Eng) that still work but teach in there off time. From my understanding there will be basic DP and adv courses… As well as scenario based training for DPO’s and ENG.
