[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98679]Don’t recall keep your hands in your pocket and relax, watch the lights blink, but I do remember ABHITZEKESSEL, among all the other tags. I worked the Charlotte with the good old pig farmer from Oregon. He was a dam fine Chief. Ah, those good old Bremerhaven days![/QUOTE]
Yeah, that’s right. We had that exchange some time ago. And Bremerhaven. I have forgotten the names of many of the joints, but not the personnel.
On a side note, I am sure that I know an old port engineer or two that you had to tolerate, uh, I mean work with. I do have to say, though, that I genuinely like most of them. Having a Lykes ship in Galveston every couple of weeks was somewhat of a highlight of my ABS days. It was sad to see them go the way of freight forwarders. . . . A lot of people from their personnel to the contractors went looking for work after the last one visited the area many years ago now. . .
[QUOTE=cmakin;98684]Yeah, that’s right. We had that exchange some time ago. And Bremerhaven. I have forgotten the names of many of the joints, but not the personnel.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cmakin;98684]On a side note, I am sure that I know an old port engineer or two that you had to tolerate, uh, I mean work with. [/QUOTE]
Did they sport white boiler suits?
[QUOTE=cmakin;98684] I do have to say, though, that I genuinely like most of them.[/QUOTE]
That’s fair ~
[QUOTE=cmakin;98684] Having a Lykes ship in Galveston every couple of weeks was somewhat of a highlight of my ABS days. It was sad to see them go the way of freight forwarders. . . . A lot of people from their personnel to the contractors went looking for work after the last one visited the area many years ago now. . .[/QUOTE]
I hated to see this happening but by then I left for west coast pickins, not that there was much pickins, ships were dropping like November apples.
25% of my existence is spent bypassing, defeating, or tricking automation. I barely have manual control for our z-drives. However both our generators are mechanical and require a 24 volt signal to shut down. Just two breakers on the DC panel and I can run em till the paint burns off.
Also I have seen Mitsubishi engines that were CAT clones. All mechanical and Tier 2 compliant. I believe they were on the Miss Liss.
[QUOTE=cmakin;98696]Hehehe, Most of the joints I went to (not all) had more of an, er, “ethnic” flavor, if you will.[/QUOTE]
Ah Ha ~ So you visited Ali Baba’s too, writing a book, I suppose ~ You big bad boy you.
I heard this delicate establishment closed years ago, morphed into a Turkish Cafe and changed its name.
Oh, the humanity ~
Are we off topic or what - so what! We didn’t have computer control in Baba’s.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98755]Ah Ha ~ So you visited Ali Baba’s too, writing a book, I suppose ~ You big bad boy you.
I heard this delicate establishment closed years ago, morphed into a Turkish Cafe and changed its name.
Oh, the humanity ~
Are we off topic or what - so what! We didn’t have computer control in Baba’s. :D[/QUOTE]
There was some kind of control where my brain wasn’t involved. . .
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98824]~ or lack of same ~ :D[/QUOTE]
The new drillships have ESD blackout buttons that allow you to shutdown the engines (along with nearly everything else) from the lifeboat stations!
This idea comes from fixed rigs the idea being that when the well blows you can shutdown all sources of ignition before abandoning ship. It makes sense on a fixed rig but pushing it on a MODU will cause you to swing broadside to any wind and sea making escape very difficult! What good is it?
During my last newbuild delivery we made the mistake of telling everyone about this button during a lifeboat drill and, sure enough, some idiot couldn’t resist the urge to push it just as we were rounding the Cape Of Good Hope in bad weather. Luckily the button had a 60 second delay… enough time that the 2/m (who was luckily very competent) was able to manually over-ride the alarm but, had it been a new 2/m on watch, we would have been screwed.
So I agree… having an engine that’s not hooked up to “the system” (including any buttons outside the enige room) would be a good idea.
[QUOTE=john;98839]The new drillships have ESD blackout buttons that allow you to shutdown the engines (along with nearly everything else) from the lifeboat stations!
This idea comes from fixed rigs the idea being that when the well blows you can shutdown all sources of ignition before abandoning ship. It makes sense on a fixed rig but pushing it on a MODU will cause you to swing broadside to any wind and sea making escape very difficult! What good is it?
During my last newbuild delivery we made the mistake of telling everyone about this button during a lifeboat drill and, sure enough, some idiot couldn’t resist the urge to push it just as we were rounding the Cape Of Good Hope in bad weather. Luckily the button had a 60 second delay… enough time that the 2/m (who was luckily very competent) was able to manually over-ride the alarm but, had it been a new 2/m on watch, we would have been screwed.
So I agree… having an engine that’s not hooked up to “the system” (including any buttons outside the enige room) would be a good idea.[/QUOTE]
Geez. Sort of like the “emergency stop” cord on a train. . . . .
[QUOTE=john;98839]The new drillships have ESD blackout buttons that allow you to shutdown the engines (along with nearly everything else) from the lifeboat stations!
This idea comes from fixed rigs the idea being that when the well blows you can shutdown all sources of ignition before abandoning ship. It makes sense on a fixed rig but pushing it on a MODU will cause you to swing broadside to any wind and sea making escape very difficult! What good is it?
During my last newbuild delivery we made the mistake of telling everyone about this button during a lifeboat drill and, sure enough, some idiot couldn’t resist the urge to push it just as we were rounding the Cape Of Good Hope in bad weather. Luckily the button had a 60 second delay… enough time that the 2/m (who was luckily very competent) was able to manually over-ride the alarm but, had it been a new 2/m on watch, we would have been screwed.
So I agree… having an engine that’s not hooked up to “the system” (including any buttons outside the enige room) would be a good idea.[/QUOTE]
Artificial intelligence will never prevent natural stupidity.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98930]But, tengineer, artificial intelligence has its stupid moments also. Recall “garbage in - garbage out” ~[/QUOTE]
So true. I have found that most of the automated stuff out there works pretty well and frankly I enjoy watching it. Funny thing is this; When they started going to to all this automation it was ostensibly to cut down on labor, reduce costs. But the more automated these vessels get the more highly trained ET and IT type people they need to maintain it properly. They just change the job title and don’t require the license but due to demand they are still out the same amount of money or more in labor cost, if they run the vessel properly. Sadly many don’t want to pay for the people or the training so I foresee more major problems on the horizon. It is unfortunate the maritime schools are still turning out decent wrench turners and mediocre electricians in this day of electronics and computer control.
[QUOTE=tengineer;98964]So true. I have found that most of the automated stuff out there works pretty well and frankly I enjoy watching it. Funny thing is this; When they started going to to all this automation it was ostensibly to cut down on labor, reduce costs. But the more automated these vessels get the more highly trained ET and IT type people they need to maintain it properly. They just change the job title and don’t require the license but due to demand they are still out the same amount of money or more in labor cost, if they run the vessel properly. Sadly many don’t want to pay for the people or the training so I foresee more major problems on the horizon. It is unfortunate the maritime schools are still turning out decent wrench turners and mediocre electricians in this day of electronics and computer control.[/QUOTE]
True and where will this lead? Highly trained and experienced ET/IT types can sell themselves in many markets these days. The need will only increase. If they do not receive adequate pay they will simply hire-on elsewhere. Who could blame them?
[QUOTE=john;98839]The new drillships have ESD blackout buttons that allow you to shutdown the engines (along with nearly everything else) from the lifeboat stations!
This idea comes from fixed rigs the idea being that when the well blows you can shutdown all sources of ignition before abandoning ship. It makes sense on a fixed rig but pushing it on a MODU will cause you to swing broadside to any wind and sea making escape very difficult! What good is it?
During my last newbuild delivery we made the mistake of telling everyone about this button during a lifeboat drill and, sure enough, some idiot couldn’t resist the urge to push it just as we were rounding the Cape Of Good Hope in bad weather. Luckily the button had a 60 second delay… enough time that the 2/m (who was luckily very competent) was able to manually over-ride the alarm but, had it been a new 2/m on watch, we would have been screwed.
So I agree… having an engine that’s not hooked up to “the system” (including any buttons outside the enige room) would be a good idea.[/QUOTE]
This illustrates the ugly choices the crew of a DP rig faces after a blowout. If you leave the engines running you have a high probability of igniting the gas cloud, as probably happened on the Deepwaer Horizon*. If you shut the engines off, you may be trapped on the rig and either asphyxiate or have an explosion anyway. The bottom line is that a blowout on a DP rig is highly likely to result in a disaster. Anchored rigs not so much so, as noted.
Mitigating this risk requires a much closer coordination between the marine and drilling sides of the house, something that isn’t likely to happen soon
*If you don’t know what a gas cloud explosion looks like, take a peek at:
and
This was at a storage facility but the thermodynamics are the same.
[QUOTE=Earl Boebert;99036]This illustrates the ugly choices the crew of a DP rig faces after a blowout. If you leave the engines running you have a high probability of igniting the gas cloud, as probably happened on the Deepwaer Horizon*. If you shut the engines off, you may be trapped on the rig and either asphyxiate or have an explosion anyway. The bottom line is that a blowout on a DP rig is highly likely to result in a disaster. Anchored rigs not so much so, as noted.
Mitigating this risk requires a much closer coordination between the marine and drilling sides of the house, something that isn’t likely to happen soon
This was at a storage facility but the thermodynamics are the same.
Cheers,
Earl[/QUOTE]
I kind of understand what you were trying to say, but in reality there is not much difference. A moored rig still has basically the same size generators running 24/7 just like a DP rig. Just less of them most of the time 3 or 4, instead of 6. The ones I have been on all 4 were in the some engine compartment, where a DP rig will have 3 seperate engine rooms to in theory have 3 times the safety factor. If the magic ESD button kills all the main generators it would still have to secure the Emergency generator which is supposed to kick in automatically in a power failure. Any other equipment that is running cranes pumps and etc, or you still have an ignition source. If you completly black out a moored rig to remove all ignition sources you have nothing but some (hopefully explosion proof lights) the capability to launch the rescue and life boats, and shut in the BOP. If you need to do anything else you have to resart an ignition source. The only advantage I can possible see is that technically a moored rig will stay on location with no power. The advantage I could see to a DP rig is being able to move the rig IF you have the capibility to run the generators and thrusters. Every situation will be a little different and ther will never be a one size fits all for every one.
How ever the entire argument is kind of useless becasue just like single hull tankers, mechanical fuel injection and moored rigs, are all becoming a thing of the past. I don’t really like it any more than anyone else, but we either get with the times or get left at home.
[QUOTE=ChiefRob;99086]How ever the entire argument is kind of useless becasue just like single hull tankers, mechanical fuel injection and moored rigs, are all becoming a thing of the past. I don’t really like it any more than anyone else, but we either get with the times or get left at home.[/QUOTE]
So true,Chief, this plays out over an over. The same situation existed when diesel was replacing steam, we all saw it coming, some of us decided to accept it and get experience working with diesels, some of us went to school for more training, and some of us indeed sailed on motor vessels. I was one who made the transition but was never really happy about it so my last ships, before I said good bye, were steamers, old steam ships where everybody had to work with their hands. Those steam engineers who didn’t make the transition either retired or quit. Funny, I know a few, and like me, they are getting phone calls to go back to work as experienced steam men are hard to find these days. So, there are a few steam ships out there, not many, but MSC has some.
To the original question - Why wouldn’t a big old Detroit Diesel 2 Stroke Engine be the simplest answer? There are a bunch of them in old tugs and whatnot. Granted, they probably lack the grunt for big ships but might still provide adequate get-home power for small to mid-size vessels.
