I have a 3 cyl. series 53 Detroit rated “generator” installed (oem) in a early 70’s warner swasey (Hoptco) excavator which sees easy sporadic duty here on the ranch. I changed the oil about 25 hours ago. The other day It seemed I wasn’t getting much power to some of the hydraulics and about this time noticed a drop in oil press from 20 to about 8 (lbs).
The Hyd. oil was full with the usual amount of water in it! and I added about a half gallon of TXV or whatever unocal makes for two stroke.
There is a high pitched ‘chirp’ coming from maybe the top end, hard to say as it’s 5 feet over my head, and that peculiar smell with bright blue smoke coming from the dip stick hole.
Well, I parked it figuring I’d gotten the project ready for spring run off and if I start it again it’ll be to diagnose it, maybe get it a quarter mile down to the shop but I don’t know how long I can run it till I end up having to buy a crank as opposed to turning it … and etc. etc.
So, I wanted to ask about ideas for diagnosing this thing without tearing it down… I guess it could be something else but what else could it be?
I have a remote camera on fibre optic and numerous diagnostic tools but I think one needs to see a bearing race or a cam lobe or something?
I’d say that it’s got to be the batteries…
Sounds like proper disassembly will be required to determine the cause of failure and extent of damage. Just my 2 cents. Please post pics during the process. Good luck jimrr. Sorry for your bad news.
Uhhh, are you using gasoline two stroke oil in a Detroit?
[QUOTE=cmakin;191590]Uhhh, are you using gasoline two stroke oil in a Detroit?[/QUOTE] No, It is Unocal Txv or Tvx or something. It is the Unocal oil recommended for two stroke diesel and the salesman sells this to all the Detroit users.
The thread will only allow me to reply using the “reply with quote” option… the other day the usual option"reply to thread" was available but now I see such is not always the case.
so… no, I have to say oil type should not be a issue, I am using Delo 400 in the cats here.
[QUOTE=jimrr;191597]No, It is Unocal Txv or Tvx or something. It is the Unocal oil recommended for two stroke diesel and the salesman sells this to all the Detroit users.
The thread will only allow me to reply using the “reply with quote” option… the other day the usual option"reply to thread" was available but now I see such is not always the case.
so… no, I have to say oil type should not be a issue, I am using Delo 400 in the cats here.[/QUOTE]
How did it run before the oil change, If you had to add oil to it right after change,(only 25 hrs) Was it smoking before the drop in oil psi? I’m not familiar with that type of oil , Detroit( 2 stroke series) seem to run best on 30W or 40W single weight. The lack in hyd power, was it because the engine rpms where going down, or was the engine over loaded maybe because of a hyd pump failure? might be hard to say at this time I would guess. Same with the quote thing also …Only way I could reply.
[QUOTE=CETOOT70;191606]How did it run before the oil change,[/QUOTE]
That’s a good question. How long has this unit sat? or was the unit not being used before the failure / condition / drop in oil pressure? It might be a good idea to have an oil sample spectral analysis lab test performed. An oil sample analysis could save you lots of headaches and money and give you a general idea of the lubrication circuit condition and possible level of contamination?
I would obtain the sample from the filter. You can also cut the filter open and see if there is any evidence of visual pieces of metal? Have you checked the oil pressure with a manual known good gauge? Any abnormal noise? Are you using this excavator on a regular basis?
[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;191621]That’s a good question. How long has this unit sat? or was the unit not being used before the failure / condition / drop in oil pressure? It might be a good idea to have an oil sample spectral analysis lab test performed. An oil sample analysis could save you lots of headaches and money and give you a general idea of the lubrication circuit condition and possible level of contamination?
I would obtain the sample from the filter. You can also cut the filter open and see if there is any evidence of visual pieces of metal? Have you checked the oil pressure with a manual known good gauge? Any abnormal noise? Are you using this excavator on a regular basis?[/QUOTE]
Based on your vast experience working on Detroits or just a Google search? Or does it matter. . . .
[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;191621]That’s a good question. How long has this unit sat? or was the unit not being used before the failure / condition / drop in oil pressure? It might be a good idea to have an oil sample spectral analysis lab test performed. An oil sample analysis could save you lots of headaches and money and give you a general idea of the lubrication circuit condition and possible level of contamination?
I would obtain the sample from the filter. You can also cut the filter open and see if there is any evidence of visual pieces of metal? Have you checked the oil pressure with a manual known good gauge? Any abnormal noise? Are you using this excavator on a regular basis?[/QUOTE]
Attaboy, you tell him. Hey, while you’re up, could you describe for us what it’s like to be a deep sea diver? How does a typical workday unfold? How do you prepare for what must be extremely stressful mental and physical pressures? I’ll bet it’s a fascinating occupation, travelling all over the world enjoying the camaraderie of other highly skilled professional divers. I’ll bet you guys are like a bunch of swaggering newly minted Navy Seals when you go to bars, starting fights so you can knock the piss out of mouthy rednecks and yuppies alike? Just wondering…
Any previous engine work performed? I am hoping for your sake jimrr it’s something easy and inexpensive like a failed gasket or o-ring that is easy to replace. Have you made any progress since you started the thread?
[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;191638]I am hoping … [/QUOTE]
I am hoping that jmrr has more sense than to listen to such an obvious retard who so obviously has absolutely zero knowledge or experience but certainly has either a very thick skin or is too stupid to see that everyone here except the moderators have seen you for what you are … a useless troll pretending to be anything but what you really are … an F’ing moron.
Plese John, get rid of this fraud, he is an embarrassment to the site.
[QUOTE=Lee Shore;191632]Attaboy, you tell him. Hey, while you’re up, could you describe for us what it’s like to be a deep sea diver? [/QUOTE]
Diver MY ASS
what is more accurate are Douchebag, Dipshit, Dumbass, Dickwad or Dimbulb
any I missed?
Thanks for all the replies gang. (it wasn’t the batteries C. Capt!) The unit was used the previous day. You’re all going to cringe at this but The dipstick got snagged by brush a year ago and neighbor replaced it with a homemade so when operating on a slope the oil press wasn’t ‘normal’ so this engine may of run while not full of oil but the press was ok. I’m thinking the ‘chirping’ noise may at worst be rings and I don’t want to score the sleeves to where they can’t be honed. I’ll probably cut the filter open and find shiny stuff in there… and sending it off to a lab is ok if they don’t want too much $. while at sea I became a believer in oil analysis. well, it’s about ready to snow here, the excavator got it’s chores done for the fall/winter and it’s liable to be months before it gets any attention but i’ll post a note here for the eng. as a few of you will remember it. Thanks.
[QUOTE=jimrr;191778]Thanks for all the replies gang. (it wasn’t the batteries C. Capt!) The unit was used the previous day. You’re all going to cringe at this but The dipstick got snagged by brush a year ago and neighbor replaced it with a homemade so when operating on a slope the oil press wasn’t ‘normal’ so this engine may of run while not full of oil but the press was ok. I’m thinking the ‘chirping’ noise may at worst be rings and I don’t want to score the sleeves to where they can’t be honed. I’ll probably cut the filter open and find shiny stuff in there… and sending it off to a lab is ok if they don’t want too much $. while at sea I became a believer in oil analysis. well, it’s about ready to snow here, the excavator got it’s chores done for the fall/winter and it’s liable to be months before it gets any attention but i’ll post a note here for the eng. as a few of you will remember it. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Good idea cut the filter open first in your shop. If you see metal then you know what has to happen. (tools, bolts, and parts on the bench)
(hand cleaner near the wash basin)
Check these guys out. Free test kit? and Oil analysis - $28 per sample Add TBN - $10
So only $28.00 for the basic. They take CC
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Another one is CTC Analytical Services, Inc
They have several labs in different areas / states.
I have used both companies. They are both good. Make sure you label your fluid sample in detail. VIN, make, model - etc. and of course your name and contact info [B][U]on the plastic bottle, not the box you send in.[/U][/B] That’s why getting their kit is important so you provide the info they want. Remember you are mentioning two problems - smoke and loss of oil pressure (actually 3 chirp noise, smoke, and oil pressure loss). So … look at / inspect the bearings, journals, and pump in addition to evidence of vertical scores and dry scuff / surface etch on the cylinder liners and or piston skirts… Let’s just hope you do not find any evidence of lack of lubrication and heavy discoloration.
[B][U]How to Choose an Oil Analysis Laboratory.[/U][/B]
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2306/oil-analysis-laboratory
would somebody please find where our very own DeepSeaDouche plagiarized all this from?
Holy mother of God when will it stop…
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;191790]Holy mother of God when will it stop…[/QUOTE]
It won’t stop until the management removes the idiot. Why they have allowed it to go on for so long is a mystery.
It really does make the site look like a robotic response site for the greenest amateurs …
Always pop off a air box cover, bar it over a bit ,take a look at the rings, push on them with a little screwdriver, if they spring back they, should be good. Check for scoring. 353s I think you can only get to 2 , depending on configuration , Hope all is not lost, One good thing about Detroit’s, Thank the military for being able to have parts for the older ones still, Cummins will make you pay full price on core charge stuff, (injectors) stuff like that. But sounds like a good spring project. Good luck
[QUOTE=CETOOT70;191792]Always pop off a air box cover, bar it over a bit ,take a look at the rings, push on them with a little screwdriver, if they spring back they, should be good. Check for scoring. 353s I think you can only get to 2 , depending on configuration , Hope all is not lost, One good thing about Detroit’s, Thank the military for being able to have parts for the older ones still, Cummins will make you pay full price on core charge stuff, (injectors) stuff like that. But sounds like a good spring project. Good luck[/QUOTE]
For God’s sake, don’t forget “the hand cleaner near the wash basin.”