Deepwater Horizon - Transocean Oil Rig Fire

[QUOTE=BLISTERS;39422][QUOTE=bigmoose;39393]

Bigmoose, there is absolutely no way at this point that I could attain the type of technical prowess and integrity characters like CM1 has attained, let alone on this forum to take on the Alcor team. I have 30 years experience and would need at least another 10 to 15 years to get anywhere close to the likes of CM1’s experience. In my local oil patch thankfully wise CEOs are begging truly experienced companymen who were wrongfully forced into hibernation to come back with big bucks. We suspect insurance pressures are playing a role in this. One guy I know, and there are only a few like these that I had the honor to work with, are citing excuses like , they won’t qualify for HUET to politely decline but are counter offered with superintendent roles in town.

My guess is CM1 is keeping his powder dry for the moment and has other priorities to attend to.[/QUOTE]

I can’t even imagine how expensive insurance must be right now for offshore (and evn on shore) drilling activities. The giants like BP self-insure, but not all companies can do that. Approximately 1/5th to 1/8th of our gross revenue is eaten up in insurance, and this is in a fairly low risk and low coverage (only 2-13 million depending on who your clients are) sector of the engineering/drilling industry.

So increased blood-sucking from insurance companies is just one more gift that BP has given the oil industry (and consumers, who end up swallowing the rate increases).

Thanks Tony! Heckuva a job!

[QUOTE=BLISTERS;39469][QUOTE=alcor;39396]

I think you got things back to front here Alcor. The question is will BP and the psychopaths that run it and approved the well plan, even till today, ever comprehend:

-the folly of cost cutting at the risk of safety to life and the environment to maximize share holder return ?
[B]Ans: No cost cutting occurred. That’s in your imagination, and it satisfies your need for retribution, which therefore clouds your judgement.
[/B]-that when you tell one lie, you gonna have tell a thousands and more ?
[B]Ans: They haven’t lied to anyone. They may not have answered your questions, but there sre people in position to pose the relevant questions. Blame your Gov’t for lack of openness!!
[/B]-the massive damage BP has done and will be doing for scores of years to come ?
[B]Ans: They have full responsibility for the spill and clean-up costs. They’ll pay. Regarding smaller Operators who do not have the ability to pay, you better get them out of the Gulf now. Or, make sure the Gov’t agencies know how to police the industry and ensure a clean-up program is in place. As it stands, the MMS accepted the systems in place. Ask your Gov’t why this wasn’t prevented. Or, do you just trust that all Operators will function with honour, integrity and decency. I’d say you either have a very gullible Gov’t or probably very foolish!!![/B]
-that even if costs amount to the Trillions are paid ever, the gulf and its people will never ever be made whole ?
[B]Ans: You’re a resilient people. BP, will have to pay for the clean-up. The deficiencies of Gov’t will be fought in court.
[/B]-that even if the well is killed the above point will still apply ?
[B]Absolutely. And, the well will be killed. What’s going to be interesting is when they close in the well whether we see any external flow. If not, you’ll all have to gather other accusations against BP. Meantime, keep an open mind.
[/B]Does BP regret they are a bunch of shameless lying bastards !? Do not believe anything they say until it is denied. I hope a school teacher somewhere in the gulf will organize a visit to BP’s HQ or organize a teleconference so kids can directly question BP officials at to what really went wrong, Why ? and What’s going to happen next ? Future generations in the gulf will need to know the truth directly from BP -and the world should be allowed privy to this conference.[/QUOTE]
[B]Don’t jump to conclusions on the lies. It may be that all the speculation on this site is infact exactly that, speculation. Keep an open mind.
[/B]

[QUOTE=CPTdrillersails;39475][QUOTE=BLISTERS;39422]

I can’t even imagine how expensive insurance must be right now for offshore (and evn on shore) drilling activities. The giants like BP self-insure, but not all companies can do that. Approximately 1/5th to 1/8th of our gross revenue is eaten up in insurance, and this is in a fairly low risk and low coverage (only 2-13 million depending on who your clients are) sector of the engineering/drilling industry.

So increased blood-sucking from insurance companies is just one more gift that BP has given the oil industry (and consumers, who end up swallowing the rate increases).

Thanks Tony! Heckuva a job![/QUOTE]

If your Gov’t had agencies to police the offshore industry then we wouldn’t be where we are today. Permission was granted to drill. Whoever gives that permission is the ultimate authority. Don’t look anywhere else.

[QUOTE=alcor;39481][QUOTE=CPTdrillersails;39475]

If your Gov’t had agencies to police the offshore industry then we wouldn’t be where we are today. Permission was granted to drill. Whoever gives that permission is the ultimate authority. Don’t look anywhere else.[/QUOTE]

You really believe that?.. cus I sure don’t. More laws, police, judges and prisons don’t stop criminals from committing crimes. Why would they stop big businesses?

[QUOTE=alcor;39479][QUOTE=BLISTERS;39469]
[B]-the folly of cost cutting at the risk of safety to life and the environment to maximize share holder return ? Ans: No cost cutting occurred. That’s in your imagination, and it satisfies your need for retribution, which therefore clouds your judgement. -that when you tell one lie, you gonna have tell a thousands and more ? Ans: They haven’t lied to anyone. They may not have answered your questions, but there sre people in position to pose the relevant questions.
[/B][/QUOTE]

OK Alcor, I’ll keep an open mind but seeing that you are BP’s self appointed guardian angle, can you give us your perspective of what happen to the other piece of pipe that was jammed in the BOP ? We all saw pictures of these, so did gamma ray scans much to BP’s disbelief that back then that gamma imaging inference was that there was 2 fish stuck in the BOP, subsequently visually revealed after the bent riser was crimped cut with the crab claw. BP claims they don’t know where it is now, leaving the only possibility that its fallen down. Where do you think it is now ? Or what do you think happened to it ?

[QUOTE=alcor;39479][QUOTE=BLISTERS;39469]
[B]ALCOR Answered: They have full responsibility for the spill and clean-up costs. They’ll pay. Regarding smaller Operators who do not have the ability to pay, you better get them out of the Gulf now. Or, make sure the Gov’t agencies know how to police the industry and ensure a clean-up program is in place. As it stands, the MMS accepted the systems in place. Ask your Gov’t why this wasn’t prevented. Or, do you just trust that all Operators will function with honour, integrity and decency. I’d say you either have a very gullible Gov’t or probably very foolish!!!.
[/B][/QUOTE]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/07/11/2010-07-11_bp_to_cut_payments_on_40000_claims_by_people_affected_by_oil_spill_cites_paperwo.html BP’s latest move isn’t going to win the beleagured oil giant any popularity points. As oil continues to spew into the Gulf, BP has said it will significantly cut payments on claims to those impacted by the disaster because of problems with their paperwork, the Associated Press reported. Kristy Nichols, the secretary of Louisiana’s Department of Children and Family Services, sent an open letter to federal BP claims administrator Kenneth Feinberg on Friday, saying the company had confirmed to her that they would decrease payments “to individuals whose claims files were incomplete.” Nichols cites a BP representative who told her that more than 40,000 of the 99,508 people who have filed claims may get lower checks. That “will be devastating to individuals surviving financially month-to-month,” she said. “This action is irresponsible and in complete contrast to BP’s repeated promise that they will ‘make things right.’” Nichols said that many people who have filed claims don’t have records that BP finds acceptable. “It is crucial that BP not continue to penalize these individuals and instead accept alternative forms of documentation, such as records held by the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries,” she wrote. She also suggested that the company look to the state to fill in any holes before punishing distressed individuals. “It is rash for BP to make this decision without consulting the State to determine if there are alternative methods for obtaining the documentation in State records,” she wrote. In the letter, Nichols calls BP’s handling of the claims process “disturbing” and demands greater transparency. “This request is urgent,” she wrote. “Louisiana has already suffered from the oil spill disaster more than any other Gulf Coast state. Our analysis continues to show the inefficacy of BP’s claims process to ease the suffering of Louisiana’s residents.” Meanwhile, BP has removed the containment cap that was said to be capturing up to 25,000 barrels of oil per day, as the company works to install a new oil containment system. But before the new cap is installed, hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil are once again flowing freely into the gulf. The White House remained optimistic Sunday, even though oil containment is well behind schedule. “We’re in a very critical point in the containment efforts,” Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said on Meet the Press. “The new containment procedure will more than triple our containment capacity when it’s all said and done.”

[QUOTE=A Cooke;39433]Alf like many, including myself is looking for reliable souls to get us out of this jam. [snip]

I made an earlier post that:
on 1 day Kent Wells told us the diamond cutter was the tool of choice for cutting the riser off near the joint and the super shear was not suitable for this application.
On the next day, after the diamond cutter failed, the super shears were put into action and the consequent twisting and deformation of the flange has caused all sorts of consequent problems.
The conclusion was that the contradiction of the assertion on day 1 and the reality of actions on day 2, were not commensurate with a well thought out plan. Kent is put forward as the senior technical guy of BP. Throughout my whole working life in engineering, albeit not the petro-chemical industry, technically competent people are reserved and careful about what they commit to, on the basis that they know better than anyone else that they are responsible for execution and are familiar with all the pitfalls to that execution. I was shocked because, in my modest book, saying one thing one day and doing something completely different the next, smacks of a marketing man masquerading in technical guise and every time I have come across that little combination, in my life, disaster lurks somewhere not far ahead.

Kent clearly stated in an earlier briefing that all attempts at stopping the flow of oil/gas, based on control at the sea-floor, were off. He stated clearly that bottom -kill was the only way of stopping the flow of oil/gas and that from this moment on sea-floor activity was wholly related to collecting as much of the leaking oil/gas as possible.

I have just listened to his latest video 10th July. Make your mind up Kent. If now, several months in, you are not sure as to whether the casing retains integrity, and possibly it does and it can be shut in with a new BOP stack then, what they h**l were you messing about for during the last XXX days? Virtually every forum out there had somebody saying “stick a new BOP on top”. You told us “no”. I am now scared. Would anyone let an industry that cannot determine some pretty basic facts and make sensible decisions as a consequence, be responsible when the consequences of failure are so horrific ? Would they be allowed to run a nuclear plant or run an airline, like this ? [/QUOTE]

There have been a few other comments about Kent Wells and his veracity/competence. I think it is useful to point out that more than one thing can be true about a person: Kent Wells can be an extraordinarily competent and thoughtful engineer, he can also at the same time be a fine, fine bullshitter. When you get promoted to the level that KW has reached, you often find people who are both. The Kent Wells I saw in the video describing the proposed Top Kill was, in my view, (and experience around the type) the former: a very competent and thoughtful engineer, describing a proposed process and the plans b, c, etc… He was backed up with an extremely well-rehearsed and well-choreographed presentation. An impressive performance. In that video, and also subsequent videos, I’ve seen him actually be quite careful to say they are working on multiple contingency plans and options, while he (rightly) focuses on describing the “A” plan. He is most definitely an extraordinarily competent, thoughtful, and obviously well-spoken engineer.

That said…

He is also a first-class bullshit artist. He relentlessly calls this an “event”, which is kind of the same as calling the Hindenburg, or Chernobyl or Three Mile Island “events”. No Kent, this is not an “event”, it is a motherfucking DISASTER, caused by a major league “ACCIDENT” that was entirely PREVENTABLE and was caused by YOUR COMPANY’S MAJOR-LEAGUE FUCK UP. So let’s not pussy-foot around this, shall we? Again, this is not an “event”, it is not a “tragedy”, it is a MAJOR-LEAGUE FUCK UP. And not to belabor the point Kent, but this MAJOR-LEAGUE FUCK UP happened in the sector for which you, as Senior Vice President - Exploration and Production, had direct responsibility. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’!

Now I understand where Kent is coming from: this is a career-defining moment for him, in fact, he probably advanced in his career in response to some previous, similar fuck up. Why do I say this? Because I have been in more than one “War Room”, surrounded by “The best minds in our field”, when responding to more than one MAJOR-LEAGUE FUCK UP. I understand the dynamics, and I understand the types of individual who are advanced as a result. The tools you need in “The War Room” are prioritized as follows:

  1. Be extraordinarily self-confident.
  2. Be extraordinarily well-prepared, well-organized, well-spoken, and careful with your words. Not guarded, but careful
  3. Have a commanding presence/deep voice.
  4. Alpha dog proclivity
  5. Academic/experience credentials (better to batter your less-educated competitors, they call it a “War Room” because the war mainly takes place in the room). Not afraid to insult your “inferiors”.
  6. Be close personal friends with the lead stakeholder in the War Room.
  7. Champion a conveniently easy solution to the problem, which is cheap, ignores complications and peripheral impacts, and although not fool-proof, is easily explained and completed. Bonus points if it deflects responsibility to a third party.
  8. Champion an innovative approach to the problem which, although expensive, guarantees success, and includes a solution to peripheral impacts.
  9. Have an incredibly nuanced technical grasp of the problem/fuck up and the myriad of potential fixes.

You will note the emphasis is on presentation, authority and ass-covering; nobody involved wants to say/do the wrong thing, so they will defer to the carefully-spoken individuals who project authority. Also note that simplicity, low-cost and deflection of responsibility are also highly prized. Technical prowess is actually NOT that important, even if the state of minute technical details are critical to the success/failure of the operation (as they are here). Those details are typically left to the lower echelon of engineers/technicians who are tasked with implimenting the plan. If the plan fails, it is then their fault/bad luck, not the failure of the plan to address important technical details. It is also their fault (or the fault of the person with the carefully nuanced grasp of the technical details) for not suffiently/properly communicating (there’s that word again) these details to their “superiors” in the war room. This is a very important point, everyone in the war room is aware of the technical details, but those details are less important than other factors. I’ll discuss why this is important below.

So Kent Wells is exhibit A. Contrast this with Tony Hayward, who has clearly failed at this most critical performance criteria. The knives are being sharpened for you Tony, and the raven is croaking your name…

I have confidence that BP are doing all that anyone could do right now and have been doing for several weeks. What I don’t have, is any confidence that this industry goes about what it does with the level of responsibility commensurate with the consequences. A red hot Alcor, or any number of other competent, diligent and professional individuals, whose heartfelt comments I read here, on the guages every day, every second of every day, making sure that there is no blow out on their rig, is great for that rig, it is not a solution. Somewhere, there will be an idiot that is not awake, not watching. The risk of failure is too close. The capability to interrogate the mode of failure (as we see here - is the casing integrity compromised ?) and take action as a consequence (stick more gaffer tape on the spanner) is not up to the task.
Kent - I am not impressed and again, the gulf between technology applied to extraction and technology applied to dealing with failure, is shown as being huge and incompatible with the nature of the task…

You are clearly right that relying on “the best in their field”, and “eternal vigilance” is not a safety culture. In fact, without a safety culture, or structured approach to safe operations (created by the operations management of a company, i.e. people like Kent Wells - Senior Vice President - Exploration and Production), the most diligent individual in the world is nothing more than a future statistic.

I think the biggest mistake people can make in trying to understand this disaster is to assume that BP and people like Kent Wells are not highly competent. They are. But the aspects of competence we may value (rigorousness, responsibility, innovation) are not the same as what they value (simplicity, communication, economy), and a leopard doesn’t change its spots. They are making the choices they are making, and responding to this disaster in the same way they have conducted the day-to-day business which got them where they are, and us all into this mess in the first place. If you look carefully you can see the same modus operandi, here in no particular order is what i observe:

  1. Failure to take complete responsibility.
  2. Oversimplification and disregarding technical details (by choice, as it negates simplicity or contraindicates a preferred economical plan)
  3. Economy (delays in response, mobilizing equipment and subcontractors, cost-cutting in plans)
  4. Bullying of partners (i.e. Coast Guard, US Government agencies, TO, Halliburton, Schlumberger)
  5. Withholding important technical information
  6. An emphasis on ass-covering/careful and well-executed communication over forthrightness, candor and promptness of communication.

The examples of all this are too numerous to detail or list.

One more remarkable thing about Kent Wells that you don’t really notice until you look closely is that [I]The Man Does Not Blink[/I]. Not ever. Go ahead andwatch this video and take the Kent Wells Eye Contact/Blink Challenge. I watched the first 1:36 and he didn’t blink once.

Forget about technical prowess, this is the kind of quality that is rewarded at BP.

[QUOTE=alcor;39481]If your Gov’t had agencies to police the offshore industry then we wouldn’t be where we are today. Permission was granted to drill. Whoever gives that permission is the ultimate authority. Don’t look anywhere else.[/QUOTE]

Alcor, with all due respect, I don’t accept that logic. I get a driver’s license from the state, the state also inspects and certifies my vehicle for safety. They ARE NOT responsible for it’s safe operation. I AM, the operator. This can go on and on… operor non censeo per vnvs baro

[QUOTE=BLISTERS;39485][QUOTE=alcor;39479]

OK Alcor, I’ll keep an open mind but seeing that you are BP’s self appointed guardian angle, can you give us your perspective of what happen to the other piece of pipe that was jammed in the BOP ? We all saw pictures of these, so did gamma ray scans much to BP’s disbelief that back then that gamma imaging inference was that there was 2 fish stuck in the BOP, subsequently visually revealed after the bent riser was crimped cut with the crab claw. BP claims they don’t know where it is now, leaving the only possibility that its fallen down. Where do you think it is now ? Or what do you think happened to it ?[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure that you’ll be happy with my answer. I am more interested in how you manage to ‘frame’ the story to ensure BP become culpable for this one too. I’m sure you’ll find a way to implicate BP if you reach far enough into your imagination…again!

[QUOTE=doyll;39483][QUOTE=alcor;39481]

You really believe that?.. cus I sure don’t. More laws, police, judges and prisons don’t stop criminals from committing crimes. Why would they stop big businesses?[/QUOTE]

“Laissez Faire” is an admirable way to be allowed to operate for most businesses. This is deepwater drilling with the most horrendous consequences, and people are asking what BP are going to do about it. Why the hell was the Gov’t (MMS) gambling… if they closed their eyes.
Standards must be set by the highest authority in the country, to protect the environment in this case. These standards were not in place.

[QUOTE=alcor;39496][QUOTE=BLISTERS;39485]

I’m not sure that you’ll be happy with my answer. I am more interested in how you manage to ‘frame’ the story to ensure BP become culpable for this one too. I’m sure you’ll find a way to implicate BP if you reach far enough into your imagination…again![/QUOTE]

Oh comon Alcor, this is a simple fair straight forward question to ask - what happened to the other piece of pipe ? Has BP come up with a possible reason for its disappearance ?..yet ! Lemme tell you something…no matter how far I stretch my imagination I still can’t imagine Walruses happily cohabiting the GOM with other forms of mammalian sea life. Perhaps your mates in BP can perform this feat of imagination ? Then again I think they have put their fantasies in writing and submitted to the government as fact ? True or False ? or are you that badly inflicted with propaganda that you can’t tell the difference between what BP imagines and reality ? May be you guys believe in your own bullshit and expect others to follow suit ? What a bunch of idiots. Make sure you don’t f’up this kill.

[QUOTE=CPTdrillersails;39492]One more remarkable thing about Kent Wells that you don’t really notice until you look closely is that [I]The Man Does Not Blink[/I]. Not ever. Go ahead andwatch this video and take the Kent Wells Eye Contact/Blink Challenge. I watched the first 1:36 and he didn’t blink once.

Forget about technical prowess, this is the kind of quality that is rewarded at BP.[/QUOTE]

I haven’t seen that particular interview as of yet. On the subject of blinking and facial movements (microexpressions) I noticed the National Incident Commander looking repeatedly to his right while talking on camera.
Looking to the right often is a sign of a non or half truth , while looking to the left is commonly associated with thought processes.

[QUOTE=lfgd521rc;39500]I haven’t seen that particular interview as of yet. On the subject of blinking and facial movements (microexpressions) I noticed the National Incident Commander looking repeatedly to his right while talking on camera.
Looking to the right often is a sign of a non or half truth , while looking to the left is commonly associated with thought processes.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know much about (nor believe much in) techniques of determining when people are lying or not based on their demeanor. Which is not to say I’m not aware of how they are [I]perceived[/I] as believable as a result of their demeanor! I just note that Kent Wells is a very imposing, authoritative figure and he has clearly developed his techniques to accentuate those powers. If you look at those online videos, including the ones where he is interviewing the myriad of technical professionals involved in the relief well effort, you will see what I mean. That also says nothing about his technical capability/competence (either way), he may, in fact, be the smartest person in the room. What I’m getting at is he is definitely “in charge” and in a war room setting, you would disagree with him at your peril, even if you are right and he is wrong. Basically, War Rooms are meant to manufacture consent and control/direct effort (i.e. establish the authority response) more than they are meant to percolate ideas and develop the best possible plan. Been there, got the t-shirt.

Oh, and Thad Allen is clearly over-matched. I’m sure in other situations he is a fine, competent man. But in this case he is out of his depth.

[QUOTE=bigmoose;39493]Alcor, with all due respect, I don’t accept that logic. I get a driver’s license from the state, the state also inspects and certifies my vehicle for safety. They ARE NOT responsible for it’s safe operation. I AM, the operator. This can go on and on… operor non censeo per vnvs baro[/QUOTE]

Bigmoose,

I think you’re missing Alcor’s point. Usually, in Alcor’s world, it’s blame Transocean day. But there’s been a solar eclipse recently, so now it’s blame government day!

(Sometimes, I do wonder who writes Alcor’s talking points…)

anybody home?

cpt drillersails . I attended the bp horizan deepwater, commission public meeting , today, in new orleans., and was very impressed, with Kent Wells…Very COnfident , sincere, scientist. It was very intersting. He said, they wil be testing well integrity, then proceed to helix riser, hopfully, at end of july, then cap well on schedule, in august.His major conern right now, is well integrity. ,<and I was on tv when a protester, sitting next to me was escorted out. THen, one of Well’s plain closed, security guards, came and sat "right next to me, like I was gonna cause some trouble. lol< maybe it was the "new york Yankee shirt I was wearing > ya think??

I was hoping to see, alcor, and CM1 duking it out,there,but…no such luck…<sigh>

This web site:

http://markimoore.com/3-ram-capping-stack-installed/

States :

"As of 1900CDT, July 12, 2010, BP’s 3 ram Capping stack was installed. The hydraulic-machanical seal ensures that the seal is tight. The well integrity test will begin on July 13, 2010 and will last anywhere between 6 and 48 hours. The 3 ram cCapping stack will be closed and the Q4000 and Helix Producer containment systems placed offline. The ideal situation will be that no oil and gas will be released to the sea during the integrity test. "

Plus a few more crumbs of info afterwards.

Some ROV operator is finally going to release some frustration:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1035[/ATTACH]
Something is gonna get its butt poked!!

[QUOTE=bigmoose;39465]OK, here is one to analyize. After the bolts were removed and the flanges split, inspection showed only 1 drill pipe sticking up out of the flex joint! The second DP was gone, pooofed gone![/QUOTE]
This would likely mean that the pipe was cut during the first functioning of the BOPs. Then when they hot stabbed to refunction the BOP the remaining pipe blew up the hole & was lodged in the stack also. They probably cut this when they manually attempted to stroke the shears closed. This would likely mean that the well is flowing on the inside as well as the outside of the casing. Of course this is speculation based on lack of transparancy.