Deck Deptartment Vs. The Engine Department..... Union Vs. Non-Union ? Help!

Do you have to get special permission for that? (note: I am not in the situation in question, the OP is)

No. No special permission needed to work as an OS. Work in the OS spot, bring your assessment sheets with you, do a good job showing assholes and elbows, and most wheelhouse guys would be happy to do the assessments with you.

[QUOTE=“MariaW;117661”] Can you get RFPNW training onboard a ship if you’re just an OS?[/QUOTE]

Why not? There is no requirement to be an AB in order to do your assessments.

[QUOTE=MariaW;117661]Well, this wasn’t my thread, but since you mention it, you can’t just take a “class” to get RFPNW. That was the point of the OP. Can you get RFPNW training onboard a ship if you’re just an OS?[/QUOTE]

This is true, you can take a class. Also you could head to the oil patch and get a RFPNW that is restricted to OSV’s in 180 days without any prior sea time. You might think about that.

As stated above… my AB Unlimited with our the RFPNW is useless.
All my time comes from chartering here in Florida. I have not been on a vessel more than 50Grt.
I have been chartering for 17 years, I have plenty of sea time but not on a large enough vessel. But I don’t meet this criteria.

Ratings Forming Part of a Navigation Watch (RFPNW)
[U][I]Note: 50% of required service must be on vessels at least 200 GRT / 500 GT.[/I][/U]

180 days of approved seagoing service associated with navigational watchkeeping functions and
involve the performance of duties carried out under the direct supervision of the master, OICNW or
RFPNW; or
[B][I]An approved course, plus approved seagoing service specified by the course/program[/I][/B]; AND
Assessments 1-1A through 3 -2A;
Note: must be signed by 2nd Mate or higher (Master 500/1600 – OK) employed on the vessel &
holding an appropriate STCW; also, all steering & helm assessments occurred on a vessel of at
least 100GRT or a full mission simulator of at least 200 GRT / 500 GT.

About the the Union school and being an AB. I talked to the director of admissions and VP Mr. Donald Nolan
he stated that I would / could be accepted to the school and they might skip me over phase 1 and phase 3.
I would start in phase 2 and continue to phase 4, because that would be redundant training.
That would give me 210 days on a vessel over 200 Grt. I would have my RFPNW completed. :o
He knew my friend and was very helpful.
Then out in the Fleet with MSC in the SIU. Then the Star Center to get my schooling for my 3rd Mate License
once I have enough sea time. That is my plan I think ?

[QUOTE=floridadiveguy;117672]As stated above… my AB Unlimited with our the RFPNW is useless.
All my time comes from chartering here in Florida. I have not been on a vessel more than 50Grt.
I have been chartering for 17 years, I have plenty of sea time but not on a large enough vessel. But I don’t meet this criteria.

Ratings Forming Part of a Navigation Watch (RFPNW)
[U][I]Note: 50% of required service must be on vessels at least 200 GRT / 500 GT.[/I][/U]

180 days of approved seagoing service associated with navigational watchkeeping functions and
involve the performance of duties carried out under the direct supervision of the master, OICNW or
RFPNW; or
[B][I]An approved course, plus approved seagoing service specified by the course/program[/I][/B]; AND
Assessments 1-1A through 3 -2A;
Note: must be signed by 2nd Mate or higher (Master 500/1600 – OK) employed on the vessel &
holding an appropriate STCW; also, all steering & helm assessments occurred on a vessel of at
least 100GRT or a full mission simulator of at least 200 GRT / 500 GT.

About the the Union school and being an AB. I talked to the director of admissions and VP Mr. Donald Nolan
he stated that I would / could be accepted to the school and they might skip me over phase 1 and phase 3.
I would start in phase 2 and continue to phase 4, because that would be redundant training.
That would give me 210 days on a vessel over 200 Grt. I would have my RFPNW completed. :o
He knew my friend and was very helpful.
Then out in the Fleet with MSC in the SIU. Then the Star Center to get my schooling for my 3rd Mate License
once I have enough sea time. That is my plan I think ?[/QUOTE]

You need to ask a school offering the approved courses for RFPNW for the course specifics. What are the seatime requirements etc upon completion of the course. They may be significantly different than what you imagine. The CG used to have this information readily accessible on the interwebs, but no more.

[QUOTE=“psquiggs;117670”]

This is true, you can take a class. Also you could head to the oil patch and get a RFPNW that is restricted to OSV’s in 180 days without any prior sea time. You might think about that.[/QUOTE]

You can take a class to get the assessments done but you still need to do actual time on a vessel of the appropriate tonnage to get RFPNW.

There is no such thing as RFPNW that is restricted to OSVs…

Interesting problem. Seems like you should be able to get into MSC as an AB Maintenance, but if you’ve been to their career fair and got turned away I guess not.

[QUOTE=floridadiveguy;117672]
About the the Union school and being an AB. I talked to the director of admissions and VP Mr. Donald Nolan
he stated that I would / could be accepted to the school and they might skip me over phase 1 and phase 3.
I would start in phase 2 and continue to phase 4, because that would be redundant training.
That would give me 210 days on a vessel over 200 Grt. I would have my RFPNW completed. :o
He knew my friend and was very helpful.
[/QUOTE]

I guess it pays to have friends. Did you do your BST already elsewhere? Phases 2 and 4 take place aboard working vessels, I believe.

Just saying:

A mariner who presents evidence of meeting the requirements or either paragraph two or three may be issued an STCW form endorsed as a rating forming part of a navigational watch limited to service on OSVs without any geographical restriction. This qualification will not be endorsed on an MMD.

Policy letter 7/00

[QUOTE=“z-drive;117730”]

Just saying:

A mariner who presents evidence of meeting the requirements or either paragraph two or three may be issued an STCW form endorsed as a rating forming part of a navigational watch limited to service on OSVs without any geographical restriction. This qualification will not be endorsed on an MMD.

Policy letter 7/00[/QUOTE]

And what are the requirements they are talking about? Normal RFPNW only requires 180 days of sea time plus the assessments. If RFPNW-OSV was easier to get I would probable know at least one person with that rating, or at least have heard that it exists.

You were questioning whether or not it existed, not what It required or whether or not people actually got it.

[QUOTE=“z-drive;117735”]You were questioning whether or not it existed, not what It required or whether or not people actually got it.[/QUOTE]

Touche. I’m curious if it still exists though, a lot has changed in the last 13 years.

You said you have STCW-95.

STCW is Stardards of Training and Certification for Watchstanders. How do you get STCW-95 certification without completing your RFPNW assesments?

Are you talking about STCW Basic Safety Training which is totally different?

Please clarify.

This has got to be one of my biggest pet peeves in this industry, “I have my STCW.” What exactly does that mean???

Each position has certain STCW requirements that the applicant needs to meet in order to get the STCW equivalent added to their domestic license. These STCW requirements are NOT the same for all positions.
Example: A QMED only needs to complete the RFPEW assessments (which require Basic Safety Training) in order to get the STCW equivalent added to their MMD.
A 3rd Engineer needs Basic Safety Training, Medical Care Provider/Medical First Aid, and PSC/Lifeboatman in order to get their STCW equivalent.

So when people say “I have my STCW” they really need to clarify are they just talking about Basic Safety Training (which may be all the STCW requirements they need if they only have the lower level endorsements) or are they meaning they have all the STCW requirements for the position they are talking about.

[QUOTE=floridadiveguy;117629]I was told that the Engine Department is a better career option ? Opportunity and pay ?
That is the only reason I ask. If it is 3 times the pay, I might consider it ?
But I am asking for advice, and opinion’s.
I believe all advice is valuable.
Kind of, if I would have known - I might have done thing.
Thanks…[/QUOTE]

I have no useful info for you but understand your dilemma. I am just starting out/changing careers. I have lots of diesel experience but am not thrilled with the work. However if it means much more career opportunities I guess I could continue wrenching. I keep hearing that there are more opportunities for engine. I still want to go deck though. Ha ha its a tough one. Maybe if you are young just spend a year doing one or the other to see how u like it. Good luck

[QUOTE=Highball;117739]You said you have STCW-95.

STCW is Stardards of Training and Certification for Watchstanders. How do you get STCW-95 certification without completing your RFPNW assesments? I am not sure, how to answer ? I see your point,lol. I have a higher endorsement than RFPNW according to the USCG website I believe ?

Are you talking about STCW Basic Safety Training which is totally different? I do not have the BST

Please clarify.[/QUOTE]
Ok, Well this straight from the USCG website…
[B]I have an II/3; VI/I[/B] endorsement in my MMC :slight_smile:

Chapter II - Master and Deck Department
All STCW Deck endorsements require an underlying domestic endorsement. Your STCW endorsement may include a limitation based on the domestic endorsement you are issued. Review the checklist for the domestic endorsement you hold or are applying for to see the STCW requirements.
STCW Deck Endorsements currently being issued:

[ul]
[li]Regulation II/1 - Officer in Charge of a Navigational Watch (OICNW)[/li][li]Regulation II/2 - Master, Chief Mate 3000GT or More[/li][li]Regulation II/2 - Master, Chief Mate Between 500GT and 3,000GT[/li][li]Regulation II/3 - Master and OICNW < 500GT ( This is me )[/li][li]Regulation II/4 - Rating Forming Part of a Navigational Watch (RFPNW)[/li][li]Regulation II/5 - Able Seafarer-Deck[/li][/ul]
A lot of American companies use that phrase to mean BST even though that is wrong. STCW-95 is the standard set forth by the IMO for competency of seafarers. Examples of STCW qualifications are BST, Proficiency in Survival Craft (PSC), RFPNW, RFPEW, Mate, Master, and the newly added Able Seafarer - Deck & Able Seafarer - Engine.

I have a hard time understanding why an employer would require an RFPNW if you already have OICNW. Or why someone would want you to go through an apprenticeship program designed for people with zero experience if you already have a Master’s license. Did Mr. Nolan know you have the OICNW? I thought OICNW supercedes RFPNW? You might find this thread interesting although it doesn’t completely apply to your predicament: http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/2550-rfpnw-oicnw-mmc.html

Your II/3 is for vessels under 500gt. The RFPNW doesn’t have a tonnage limitation on it as far as I know. So basically you can only be an OICNW on something under 500tons. Where as the RFPNW will allow you to work on any size vessel. If you had the OICNW without the tonnage restriction maybe you wouldn’t be having this problem. At least that is how I’m reading it.

I have a friend who is a “Chief Eng” on a tiny sightseeing boat. With that limited license it doesn’t mean he could even stand a watch on my current boat with the massive amount of systems onboard it.