[QUOTE=mtskier;95832]I did the Workboat Program and hired on as a Mate. Wished the VA had been available for me, or that my Navy sea time had been deemed worthy…Andy Hammond is well worth his fee.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure you’re looking at this issue, but it comes up a lot and this is an opportunity to provide an explanation on a frequwent misconception.
Military time obtained before entering a program can’t be used to reduce or waive the sea time you have to get in the program. The nature of a program is that “ordinary” sea service is replaced with structured, on-board training. So in a program like PMI, the requirement is not that you have a certain amount of sea time, but that the program provides you with a certain amount of on-board training. With the PMI program that is approved for STCW OICNW endorsements, the STCW requirement is completing a program with 12 months as part of the program. Obviously, sea time acquired before you enrolled in a program cannot be considered to be a part of the program.
Similarly, prior service cannot be used to reduce or waive a training ship cruise at a maritime academy.
For OICNW, sea time acquired before entering a program can only be used if you have at least three years of it which would qualify you for the endorsement by the alternative hawse-pipe route.
Am I the only person on the planet that sees a need for the schools to operate “programs” to help existing limited tonnage mariners (with a lot of previous seatime) upgrade to unlimited licenses?
In other words, why don’t we have approved Master 1600 to Third Mate programs?
Take the test and be done? Memorize rules of the road, but don’t apply them?
Memorize navigation problems, but don’t understand them?
Old school, you could learn at sea. Everyone is too busy these days to be a proper trainer / mentor. Memorizing questions and taking a test is not what we should promote!
A 1600 ton Master needing a program to apply rules and understand navigation? Really? Ok, I’m not sure what I think about that one. Besides, I did not post what you elaborated to; you made that one up.
The feeling of passing a CG test without a schools help is irreplaceable. I got my 100 then 200 master and apprentice mate all without a school. My AB as well and plan to do the 1600 mate without a course. When your hungry for it theres no reason you can not teach yourself. Oh and I disagree with the post about old school because you can still learn that way, on the boat. Problem wih that is first you have to admit that you dont know.
[QUOTE=anchorman;96068]What in the world do you need a program for? Take the test and be done.[/QUOTE]
My view is that a “program” is needed for those of us who only have seatime under 1600 tons. We can take the Third Mate exam (that’s no problem), but then we end up with an “unlimited” license that is in fact restricted to only 2000 or 3000 GRT.
The USCG and the academies have devised a 4 year college degree program with very little real seatime to turn anyone into a Third Mate.
If they can formulate a successful program to turn farm boys into Third Mates without much actual seatime, then they could, and should, also have another program to turn 1600 ton Masters into unlimited Third Mates (with no tonnage limitations).
The whole point of the hawespipe is you have the practical experience versus an Academy Degree. What you propose is having neither (no degree and no experience on the tonnage) for a 3rd Mate’s license. It would be very tough to get a job like that, if not, impossible. I know many people that got 3rd mates license with tonnage restrictions and very quickly got rid of that.
[QUOTE=anchorman;96263]The whole point of the hawespipe is you have the practical experience versus an Academy Degree. What you propose is having neither (no degree and no experience on the tonnage) for a 3rd Mate’s license. It would be very tough to get a job like that, if not, impossible. I know many people that got 3rd mates license with tonnage restrictions and very quickly got rid of that.[/QUOTE]
I’m not suggesting that anyone should get something for nothing. By the way, a great many limited Masters already have four year college degrees, not that that has much to do with anything.
A reasonable upgrade program from Master 1600 (with 360 days seatime sailing as master) to Third Mate unlimited, might look something like this: (1) 30 days of intensive classes; (2) 60 days of cadet shipping on unlimited tonnage vessels, or a training cruise; (3) 10 days of simulator assessments; (4) 10 days of capstone classes; and (5) the required additional STCW courses. That’s just a suggestion. A 12 month program with no more than 6 months of classes, and no more than 6 months of paid seatime sailing “AB / Cadet” would also probably be reasonable enough.
Until the past few years it was fairly rare for anyone to go from Master 1600 to unlimited Third Mate. There were damn few jobs on vessels over 1600 tons, but under 3000 tons. Now there are a few under 3000 ton OSV jobs.
Just did the 3rd. Mate test while holding a 1600 master. Didnt even had to study for it. Rules are the rules. Whatever I didnt kniw in nav gen was in the light list. Bowditch and coast pilot. Deck safety and enviromental is mainly CFRs and USC. Ploting is basically set and drift and compass correction. And terrestrial N C is almost identical to the 1600 with the exception of a couple of tide problems and an azimuth via a star and planet other than the sun.
Have the tonnage restriction on it with a 400 Itc cap. But with the size of osv s these days. Itll be of soon
[QUOTE=anchorman;96223]A 1600 ton Master needing a program to apply rules and understand navigation? Really? Ok, I’m not sure what I think about that one. Besides, I did not post what you elaborated to; you made that one up.
I can learn at sea? What exactly?[/QUOTE]
Meant to say, back in the day. I was not referring to you as old school.