Costs for ship's crew

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Hi All,

I need some help. I am trying to create a simple tool to evaluate the economics for ship concept designs, including all the operating costs. One trouble area is the cost for crew. I know crew are generally the 2nd biggest cost for a ship, right behind bunkering. But I really struggle to find guides on number of crew required and compensation for those crew (salary plus benefits, travel costs, etc.). I have some guides from the USCG on manning requirements. But I don’t really trust them. And I really don’t trust my sources for crew compensation.

Does anyone know some information I can use? Point me to some sources or tell me your own experiences.

How many crew of each rating are required for your vessel? Please include what the ship type was and vessel tonnage (rough guess).

What was the cost of compensation? I would love if someone has a company pay scale they are willing to share. I will keep it anonymous. Or even tell me what your compensation is, if you are willing. (salary + benefits) And your license at the time that you got that pay.

If I get enough information, the goal is that for a given ship type and tonnage, I roughly predict the crew complement and crew costs.

Here is hoping for help from all you nice people.

2

Theres a lot of variables, creating a simple tool is not such a simple task. The vessel’s flag, class, trade etc can create big differences.

3

Below are the recommended monthly wage scale from the ITF. The figures are for on board only. These are only recommended so many companies will pay less than this.

Rank Total US$

Master 3,633
Chief Eng. 3,302
Chief Off. 2,346
1st Eng. 2,346
2nd Eng. 1,879
2nd Off. 1,879
3rd Eng. 1,811
3rd Off. 1,811
Elec Eng. 1,879
Ch. St/Cook 1,879
Bosun 1,205
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
ERR 1,078
OS 802
Stew 919

Total US$ 30,002

These wages are for the third world marine slaves that regularly do trip lengths of more when 12 months, and who make up the vast bulk of the worlds mariners, US ones will generally earn much higher.

4

[QUOTE=seamanstan;190035]Below are the recommended monthly wage scale from the ITF. The figures are for on board only. These are only recommended so many companies will pay less than this.
…
These wages are for the third world marine slaves that regularly do trip lengths of more when 12 months, and who make up the vast bulk of the worlds mariners, US ones will generally earn much higher.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that those monthly wages are 8 hours/day, 48 hours/week and do not factor in OT. Most vessels I’ve been on typically involve an 80 hour work week, with 12 hour days six days of the week and one day of 8 hours for engine side (ie, 32 hours of OT per week). Not sure what it works out to for deck side but they tend to get screwed up with maneuvering/tying up/shifting docks. Doubling the wages listed above would be close to what the pay is assuming the company allows OT.

On the US flagged ships I’ve sailed on, officers were a day rate with OT factored into that rate while unlicensed were a base rate and were payed OT as they worked it.

5

[QUOTE=LI_Domer;190019]Theres a lot of variables, creating a simple tool is not such a simple task. The vessel’s flag, class, trade etc can create big differences.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree. Eventually, if I were to use this for a shipping line, I would just plug in their specific labor rates for the planned service and flag. But I also want some general numbers to test the tool against.

Though I have to admit, anything that tries to make a ship into a simple tool . . . it’s really just a slightly refined guess. As you said, it’s too complicated to wrap everything into it.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=seamanstan;190035]Below are the recommended monthly wage scale from the ITF. The figures are for on board only. These are only recommended so many companies will pay less than this.

Rank Total US$

Master 3,633
Chief Eng. 3,302
Chief Off. 2,346
1st Eng. 2,346
2nd Eng. 1,879
2nd Off. 1,879
3rd Eng. 1,811
3rd Off. 1,811
Elec Eng. 1,879
Ch. St/Cook 1,879
Bosun 1,205
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
ERR 1,078
OS 802
Stew 919

Total US$ 30,002

These wages are for the third world marine slaves that regularly do trip lengths of more when 12 months, and who make up the vast bulk of the worlds mariners, US ones will generally earn much higher.[/QUOTE]

Oh perfect! That is the type of guide I was looking for. Thanks!

6

Loose lips sink ships sooooo although sailors are primarily motivated by money, the last thing they want to do is discuss actual figures with some management wonk. That is how folks with good jobs get replaced with folks with nothing to lose. Booooooooooooooooooo…

7

A search for “minimum manning certificate” might turn up some info on manning requirements.

8

Vessel voyage accounting is pretty simple With the reservation it’s been 12 years since I worked for a Ship Management company here is how it goes.

International flagged Owners general budget a flat rate per day for management including crew. This fits with usual owners accounting, Time Charter result per day. Management company sub contracts the work to a crewing company, sometimes owned by the Manager sometimes not. And the crewing can be split in the case of highly technical vessels or cruise ships, operating crew & hotel staff. Lot of ships have “Northern European” officers, Asian crew. Often ships will have Indian Engineers. It depends on what the owner needs and wants to pay for.

Anyway the crew pay rates shown above are probably good average per hour or day. The crewing company will charge more perhaps 3x rate shown on a daily basis. Covers, overhead, management, transportation cost, Crew to and from sign on port. Medical if needed, Training and certifications, for example STCW paid by the crewing company. Key staff will normally get bonus based on establish matrix. Engineers minimum technical off hire. Master, on time performance, 1st officer on cargo outturn. Port State Control Detention will block bonus in most cases. Company I worked for ran Schools, Philippines Panama and India to train crew which is also expense to the Crewing company.

Most contracts have ability to add crew for special circumstances. Deck Mechanics riding repair crew etc. over and above the normal expense

Handy size bulker 12 years ago may pay 3000 per day for management including crew. Doubt if it’s any higher today given very low charter hire, they cut cost when possible. Don’t see many Europeans on small Bulkers anymore.

If you really want to find out get in touch with one of the established ship managers, they can give you the current cost by vessel type

Boats3

9

[QUOTE=seamanstan;190035]Below are the recommended monthly wage scale from the ITF. The figures are for on board only. These are only recommended so many companies will pay less than this.

Rank Total US$

Master 3,633
Chief Eng. 3,302
Chief Off. 2,346
1st Eng. 2,346
2nd Eng. 1,879
2nd Off. 1,879
3rd Eng. 1,811
3rd Off. 1,811
Elec Eng. 1,879
Ch. St/Cook 1,879
Bosun 1,205
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
AB 1,078
ERR 1,078
OS 802
Stew 919

Total US$ 30,002

These wages are for the third world marine slaves that regularly do trip lengths of more when 12 months, and who make up the vast bulk of the worlds mariners, US ones will generally earn much higher.[/QUOTE]

these wages aren’t even close. Having hired European, Asian and US crews, I can assure you, the wages needed to actually get [I]qualified, medically fit and legitimately certificated[/I] seafarers are approx. double the minimums shown above , except that the Capt / CE / 1O / 1E are approx triple. pay less and you get less …

And higher wages for all positions if one wants to actually retain those persons. N European and USA wages far higher. As mentioned elsewhere, it all really depends on what the customer wants to pay for …

10

[QUOTE=nickninevah;190016]Hi All,

I need some help. I am trying to create a simple tool to evaluate the economics for ship concept designs, including all the operating costs. One trouble area is the cost for crew. I know crew are generally the 2nd biggest cost for a ship, right behind bunkering. But I really struggle to find guides on number of crew required and compensation for those crew (salary plus benefits, travel costs, etc.). I have some guides from the USCG on manning requirements. But I don’t really trust them. And I really don’t trust my sources for crew compensation.

Does anyone know some information I can use? Point me to some sources or tell me your own experiences.

How many crew of each rating are required for your vessel? Please include what the ship type was and vessel tonnage (rough guess).

What was the cost of compensation? I would love if someone has a company pay scale they are willing to share. I will keep it anonymous. Or even tell me what your compensation is, if you are willing. (salary + benefits) And your license at the time that you got that pay.

If I get enough information, the goal is that for a given ship type and tonnage, I roughly predict the crew complement and crew costs.

Here is hoping for help from all you nice people.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your interest in the topic. There is no simple tool applicable because every ship, route, trade, owner, flag is different. These things are no mystery for experienced ship owners, operators and managers.

They sit down with knowledge of the factors, make a crew list to support the actual operation on the actual ship in the actual trade, and make a spreadsheet that addresses the operation. It ain’t rockit science.

The start point is the number of certificated persons needed to operate underway, to maneuver, moor and unmoor the ship. Add in maintenance, cargo ops, special ops, feeding the crew and emergency team manning. It is pretty common sense stuff… Also for the cost per ship / position/ etc., factor in Number of watches per day, vacation or earned leave ratios, transport and about 15 separate recurring crew related costs. You can learn a bit about these costs by researching and reviewing ship management KPI standards, which exist.

Remember owner / operators are the ones that apply to flag for a safe manning doc, and usually it is pretty bare bones - lower than what is actually used in some cases.

As mentioned, some “crew” may be on the operator / managers books, and other working persons onboard are separately budgeted or related costs for them a considered a “non crew” accounting category. Depends on customer reqmt.

Hope this helps.