Thanks for the insight Tugsailor. Hopefully PMI can get me trained and back on deck. I have over 400 days of sea time between Navy and personal sailing endeavors, but no tug experience. Looking for a fresh start and willing to clean heads and stand “mail bouy watch” if thats what it takes. 
Thanks Tugsailor. I have a degree and sea time, so I’m leaning towards PMI.
I went to PMI and finished last spring. My buddies and I were mostly in our 20s, but one guy was 45 and one was 55. 30 is to my mind the perfect age to start, and I would say that it would beat starting out just working deck somewhere. I didn’t get a loan to do the program and I got paid enough as an O/S to pay all expenses out of pocket and now have my 1600-ton near coastal mate. I can get my 1600 ton master within 2 years. If you want to work on tugs and not ships (that’s what I wanted), the license is big enough. I also went into the PMI workboat program already having earned a bachelors degree (most of my classmates had degrees too) so I didn’t want to go to a maritime academy and get another bachelors. I was not interested in a masters degree and I’m on the west coast, so the suny masters degree/license thing for 3 years would never have been appealing, though that’s just in my case. And I do believe that PMI/MITAGS is cheaper than a maritime academy, even if you can take out a loan for the academy. I am now without any kind of student loan debt, and that is worth a lot to me.
What is the average pay the cadets take home? Last I heard it was 600$ or so a month. Did you or someone you know use the GI Bill to pay for the tuition?
You’ll be hard pressed to get an easy answer on the stipend question. From what I understand, It varies from company to company and it’s also not talked about publicly. I’m heading down the PMI path now…
GI Bill will only pay like 17k of the 25-30k price tag whereas the SUNY Grad program is almost entirely paid for plus you will get E-5 location pay while enrolled as a full time student.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;66751]The MITAGS/PMI program is probably good for someone who may or may not be a high school graduate, or that has very little college credit, provided that they have no intention of ever working on vessels over 1600 tons.
However, I cannot see how the MITAGS/PMI program would be appropriate for someone who is already a college graduate with a B.A., and/or might want to work on vessels over 1600 tons in the future.
You should carefully checkout all six of the state maritime academies. I suspect that any of them would give you at least one year of credit as a “second degree student” (kind of like a transfer student). That would make a maritime academy only a three year degree program for you. Also, as state supported schools, three years at a maritime academy would probably be cheaper than two years at MITAGS. It might also be much easier to finance with government grants and student loans.
I don’t know much about it, but that SUNY masters in maritime management with 3rd mate’s license option does sound like the best option for someone who already has a 4 year college degree.
My cousin who went to FSU says its a good school. You did not say what your major was. If you already have college level math skills, you will have a very big advantage. The rest is easy enough. I think it would be fair to say that most maritime academy degree programs probably require pre-calculus, calculus and a year of physics. These will be firm prerequisites for advanced classes.
Although graduate business classes will also have prerequisites, typically they are not so firm. Most of a graduate business program should be easy enough for a typical college graduate. However, you will be at a very great disadvantage (and perhaps flunk out) if you are not competent in basic calculus. If you are going to spend your time and money on any educational program you should plan to do well. You cannot expect to do well in 500 level business classes like managerial economics and quantitative analysis without a year of calculus.
Please let us know what you find out about the SUNY M.S. in Maritime Management with 3rd Mate program.[/QUOTE]
Over 50% of the individuals joining the Workboat Academy have a College Degree or your Education level. It should be more of a question of where would you like to work. If you are interested in working on ‘unlimited tonnage vessels’, then the Academy is a great option, and it is possible to do it in 3 years instead of 4.
If you would like to work on a Tug, OSV, or Research Vessel and you want to be employed immediately, then the Workboat Academy is a nice option. When you graduate from the Workboat Academy, you will also receive an Able Seafarer Endorsement, which will allow you to work on an unlimited tonnage vessel as an AB. You would then need two years of sea-time to increase your license to Third Mate Unlimited (no further training or testing necessary).
One last thing to consider: The Academies have Financial Aid. The Workboat Academy is VA Approved, but does not provide Financial Aid.
[QUOTE=Knotsman;96302]You’ll be hard pressed to get an easy answer on the stipend question. From what I understand, It varies from company to company and it’s also not talked about publicly. I’m heading down the PMI path now…[/QUOTE]
These days almost every company pays an Ordinary Seaman Wage, or if someone is coming in to the program with an AB ticket, then many of them will receive AB wages. The new GI Bill Benefits pay almost 100% of the program.
That’s excellent to hear. I am active duty military and have been looking at the program for sometime now. Already flew on my own dime to meet with Vic Tufts at MITAGS a year ago. I like what the program has to offer. If I do in fact come on board I will be bringing my AB endorsement/STCW95 and i will be using my GI Bill /post 9/11 to finance it. My only concern, as I am sure it is for many others, will I as a “cadet” make enough to pay my bills, such as the car?
I am a graduate of the second group of PMI workload academy grads. The program has vastly improved since then. I’m going to make a lot of arguements for the program, and just a few against.
30 years old is a perfect age to start the program. If you already have a degree, why go back school for 3 more years , plus do you sea phases over summer? At PMI/MITAGS you serve onboard as a crew member and the 365 days onboard over the courses of the program prepares you for the job vastly more than the academies. Another thing you get when you go out there as an OS crewmember instead of a cadet (ride along) , is a very real sense of the job. My experience both tugs on the W Coast and OSVs in the gulf , has shown me that academy grads end up with much more of a high handed mentality as well as the expectation of going straight to the wheelhouse.
After graduating the workboat program with KSEA I went straight into a mates spot after a couple extra trips as AB. Sailed west coast tugs as mate for over two years and have recently made the jump to OSVs . I stepped down to AB to put in My dues down south . Many academy grads were hired with me and it is very surprising to me how green many of the new grads are and how little they expect to put in on deck. Just the fact you didn’t go to an academy is many times a burden and a blessing. Also look into how few academy guys are still employed on vessels after 10 years, let’s just say it leads to a desk job more often than not. The workload program, in my opinion, gives you a straight up, real idea of what your getting into. Literally in 2 months after BST and STCW req, you will have a pretty damn good idea what you’ve gotten yourself into. Also, as long as it hasn’t changed, if after your first 60 day sea phase you decide it isn’t for you the school will reimburse 2/3 of the initial tuition. Many of the companies will actually reimburse you for tuition as a incentive to stay for 3 yrs after the program.
In my opinion there is only one arguement, well 2 actually, for the academy. First to work deep sea, and second to work in the office. With the 1600 ton license and eventually DP unlim , you can serve as DPO on any tonnage vessel, including drillships. You can also upgrade to a 6000 ton OSV which allows you to work basically any OSV or MPSV . So unless you want yo work on say , a containership or tanker , you can work larger tonnage with a 1600 ton initial license. Maybe there are benefits associated with getting the degree that I have no knowledge of. But if you decided you don’t like working a desk job, who the hell cares you have the option to go shoreside .
I recommend the program whole heartedly . Some of me wishes I had gone to say cal maritime, that is solely due to their connections with SF bay pilots and tug companies in the bay. I can say with certainty that the workboat program prepares you more for what your getting into than the academy . Let’s just say Academy grads have stars in their eyes when they come out, the world has been promised to them . I take pride in feeling more like a hawsepiper than an academy grad. You might have to put some more work into it on deck than at the academy but this is a benefit , not a burden .
You should do some EXTENSIVE research here and elsewhere . You have something here that is really special and many in your position couldn’t ask the questions you have right now. Avail yourself of what this site has to offer, and all of what you need to know has already been said here in one way or another. Just be forewarned, this job ain’t for everyone. Have a thick skin and be prepared to bust your ass. Get your hands dirty , good luck!!!
[QUOTE=Hooligansailor;97232]That’s excellent to hear. I am active duty military and have been looking at the program for sometime now. Already flew on my own dime to meet with Vic Tufts at MITAGS a year ago. I like what the program has to offer. If I do in fact come on board I will be bringing my AB endorsement/STCW95 and i will be using my GI Bill /post 9/11 to finance it. My only concern, as I am sure it is for many others, will I as a “cadet” make enough to pay my bills, such as the car?[/QUOTE]
If you have your AB ticket, is is very likely that you will go to work as an AB with AB wages. Somewhere around $250 per day. Worse case scenario is that you start on cadet pay, until an AB spot comes open. Cadet wages will be around $1,000 per month.
To a potential future mariner. First i must say that I do not know all the ins and outs of the mitags work boat program. I do however have lots of info on the PMI program which is the sister school to MITAGS in Seattle. On the west coast PMI grads have not made the best name for themselves but most companies and more importantly crews keep an open mind. But coming from either an academy or PMI/MITAGS guys on the boat will assume you know nothing and be prepared to scrub walls and cook. Most guys in the those programs think it is below them, on a towboat everyone does everything and if you start with the attitude I am above this then you are setting yourself up for a long haul. Very few companies east coast or west will start you in the wheel house after attaining your license. You have the ticket but you have a lot to learn and you should appreciate the time on deck to get comfortable with boat life. If you show an interest to learn most guys are willing to share what they know in order to have a better shipmate down the road. If you approach the subject as if you know everything you will learn nothing and guys will not want to see you in the wheelhouse. As much as the industry has changed over the decades some things are the same. You have to earn the respect of fellow crew and you have to put in your time.
But I digress you wanted to know if MITAGS was a good place to start. It is but plan on spending fair bit of money for tuition and living expenses, maybe 40k for the 2 years. If you can get on something where you sail 8 months a year or longer periods at sea it will be easy to pay back the money if you have to borrow. You will get all of the necessary classes to obtain the 1600 ton with time on tugs. Most companies today want you to have the 1600 to get into the wheelhouse so the program helps in that manner. Where I work I have seen guys do it both ways, the 2 year program at PMI and Hawspipe it, if you have the drive to do all the classes and course work then test immediately the program is probably the faster way to go. I have seen guys finish the program then work another 4-5 years the certificates from classes start to expire then have to pay to take them again. I think I read one of your posts about starting on deck and working your way up. This option is cheaper but you have figure classes into your work schedule which can vary and make it very hard to get classes done.
You really need to figure out where you want to be and if you are really good find out what company you want to work for. Because… Different companies require different things for their wheelhouse guys. Like I said before a lot of companies want the 1600 for tugs, but some don’t they will take a smaller license. If that is the case you can work up to a 1600 through upgrades and save yourself 40k. Some of the other guys were talking about the 3rd unlimited and a masters, more options is better and bigger is always better no matter what she tells you. You can go down but not up with licensing so for about the same amount of time your have acquired far more. If you are really sure you want to tow start talking to companies and be willing to take whatever they offer. The other thing to remember don’t burn your bridges it is a small industry and I have worked with a lot of guys. Very few have been at one company their whole career. So you know where I am coming from I have a BA in Macroeconomics from Western Washington went to the AB to Mate program at PMI got 3rd unlimited. I have upgraded from there but was happy to have made the decision to go unlimited. Best of luck.