For many years I have tried to avoid hiring smokers and chewers. I often tell the office, we are the non smoking boat, send the smokers elsewhere. Smoking is a filthy nasty drug addiction that has an adverse effect on other people.There are lots of smart great people that unfortunately are addicted to nicotine. That said, smoking and chewing, like excessive visible tattoos and piercings, are indications that a guy is apt to be an irresponsible and problematic shithead. I’ve also noticed that most of the problem drinkers and druggies tend to be smokers. Smokers are also more expensive to insure and subject the employer to additional risk and expense. So why hire them if you have an alternative?
It’s similar with Covid. Why take the risks that unvaccinated guys come with? The risks and high expenses an employer may potentially be liable for with Covid are much larger and more immediate than with smokers. Diversions to seek medical care, quarantines, lost time, lawsuits. Why take a risk on unvaccinated fools that are blinded to their own safety and duty to their fellow man by misguided political ideology, or are simply negligent.
Remember, a ship and it’s owners are liable for the injury and illness of crewmen. I’m not aware of an court decision that holds that a vessel was unseaworthy or an owner was negligent for allowing unvaccinated seamen aboard, but I think it’s just a question of time before it happens.
Negative, original name was the Clipper. Built 8 years before by Main Iron Works for same company. Same hull with a few differences.
I could write a book about all the medical related emergencies caused by fat mariners & smokers. Way too many to list here. I can’t even remember all the guys who died from heart attacks, some on board & 1 at the airport in the D.R flying to work. Covid19? @tugsailor says covid19 poses a greater risk than obesity & smoking but I say hogwash. I’ve worked with people who had covid19 or tested positive previously & have no stories or complaints about them. From what I can tell it’s only the elderly whose dieing of covid19 or younger people with bad health usually caused by obesity & smoking. If a shipmate tells me some cockadoodle story about being an anti-vaxxer I just shake my head & go about my business. If a shipmate can’t fit into a triple xl fire suit & can’t walk to the bridge without taking a break to catch his breath I know they & I are in trouble. This vaccine debate is just politics by another means.
‘The vaccine debate is just politics’”? A fake disease? An unnecessary vaccine? Seriously?
Smokers. I agree. Don’t hire them, if it can be avoided.
Obesity. I agree it’s a big problem. However, it’s a disability and reasonable accommodations must be provided by employers under US law. I don’t worry much about one or two fat guys. I worry when they are all fat.
What are we going to do with older mariners that just want to work and support themselves? Take them out and shoot them?
I understand that your solution is to let the unvaccinated fools spread Covid to kill off all the fat, old, or sick people. I don’t agree with that.
99% of serious Covid cases leading to hospitalization and death are now among the unvaccinated, including children. Or do you think that’s fake news about a fake disease that’s merely political?
I didn’t say that but your comment proves my point perfectly. I had shipmates who wouldn’t take their Malorone pills to prevent malaria in Africa & others who bragged about their risky sexual exploits in South Korea. Was I concerned about them getting malaria or HIV or other STD’s. Hell no, that’s not my problem. I got other things to worry about. But I’m supposed to believe you’re concerned about the hospitalization & death rates of anti-vaxxer mariners? You & freighterman1 aren’t fooling anyone. You’ve been working with ticking time bombs for decades but now you worried about the lives of these guys that you disagree with on every other subject?? Yea right…
I do agree that the politics on both sides put their spins on this virus thing. I also believe this virus is dangerous. If I were still working , would not want unvacccinated crew aboard. Hell, don’t want unvaccinated people around me ashore either. Again, some are too hardheaded to recognize that this shit is not good, no matter what age.
It’s a greater risk TO THE COMPANY because it’s a fucking communicable disease. If one of the boats I’m currently on come down with covid it’ll cost the constant tens millions in lost work.
That’s true but the goal of the vaccine isn’t to stop people from getting covid19 but preventing death & hospitalization. A coworker of mine who tested positive on the way to work recently arrived late after 2 weeks in a foriegn hotel prison & he had the vaccine. My wife has a coworker who tested positive & they received their vaccines at the same time in February. My youngests 2nd grade teacher is out for covid19 & she had the vaccine plus had covid19 previously last year. Just because you might have idiot obese shipmates who don’t take malaria pills & have unprotected sex with prostitutes doesn’t mean you’re going to catch malaria, AIDS & die of a heart attack because of it. I have no problem with the anti-vaxxers because I know the vaccine doesn’t necessarily stop the spread of covid19, just reduces the likelihood of death & hospitalization. Their delusions about vaccines isn’t my problem, it’s theirs.
Exactly, facts are,
-Vacine does not prevent you from getting covid.
-Covid will be around for ever
-Nobody cares to go after the source of the problem (US funded lab) and could care less their own taxes financed this thing.
Have a blast with your blaming when you get a cytokine storm, blood clots and whatever else happens.
Edit: I’ll also add since I am on break, a d-dimer test shows 75% positive after covid shots, that means a very recent blood clot. Also old rust buckets should pull the plug and worry about thier own health, that goes for the obese, heavy smokers, diabitic alchoholics since they are the only ones at risk. Young people taking this shot are weaking thier immune system. In simple terms, peer pressure and virtual signaling = bad.
At least two seafood plants in the Aleutians were forced to shut down operations so far this year. They took a financial loss. We work with seafood plants. They tell us we are not to touch their docks if we have a C19 infection aboard. We work with a big cold storage in Bellingham WA .They also tell us we are not to touch at their dock if we have a C19 infection aboard.
We are in the business of stopping at docks and working cargo. If we can’t stop at a dock, how are we going to make money?
You can really tell the viewpoint of people who respond to this thread. For me, it’s simple commerce. If a customer tells me I can’t work cargo at their dock because of C19, I’m going to take precautions against C19, to avoid financial loss. How is that politics? Why are we talking about smokers suddenly? I keep it simple. It’s purely a commercial decision. I don’t get to tell the customer how to run his business.
There are other people on this thread that don’t have to deal with customers. Therefore, they look at vaccination strictly a matter of personal decision. For them it’s all politics. Even though the pay for some of these people comes from taxes paid by companies and employees that have to stay in business to pay the taxes.
While I think vaccines are great & I have mine…
Mariners like me with the vaccine can spread covid19 just as easily as those without. The chances of them dieing from is far greater though.
From the article by John Hopkins about data from the CDC:
“New data was released by the CDC last week showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated.”
The way I see it is you have an option if your are in domestic trade but if you are in international trade you don’t. The border official at a foreign port doesn’t care about your personal opinion and the shipping company wants the ships arrival to be as seamless as possible.
In many countries I had to submit a form showing the expiry dates of everyone’s Yellow Fever vaccinations and I kept everyone’s passports and their vaccination certificates.
The end result is no vaccination, no job.
I might add that just before anyone goes “ wheels up” on the master retaining everyone’s passports in the USA the master can be fined $5000 if a foreign crew member is found in possession of their passport when on shore leave. They are only to have an identity card and the section of their D2 visa.
All I know is once all you “vaccinated” sheeple start keeling over and the labor pool is drying up, this un"vaccinated" but seemingly mysteriously healthy person will be able to charge whatever day rate he wants.
Anti-vaxers are like draft dodgers. They stand on the sidelines shouting about their personal right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness while others volunteer and risk all to defend the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.The anti-vaxer would be shouting “God Save the Queen” or Sieg Heil Fuhrer” if not for the rest of us.
We go to communities in Alaska that mostly have their own quarantine requirements. Some of them have stopped all commercial flights. Some test all arrivals at the airport. Some do not even allow residents to return home. If we had a Covid case onboard, I don’t know where we would be allowed to make port.
If we had a Covid case onboard that required treatment, the air ambulance bill would be $50,000, if we could find a place to get the guy to an airstrip.
The company comptroller nearly needed medical attention himself when he learned that he would still have to pay the crew if the boat was quarantined for 14 days.
If the company recklessly sends an unvaccinated crewman to the boat and I get Covid, of course I will sue the company, and that unvaccinated crewman. If I die, the Administrator of my estate will have a fiduciary duty to sue the company.
Companies are liable for injury and illness of crewmen.
What company, or mariner with assets, in their right mind would want to take on the risk of allowing unvaccinated persons onboard?
I’ll be getting a higher day rate while the unvaccinated disqualify themselves. In fact, I’m already getting a higher day rate and I think Covid has something to do with it.
Dude!!! You are just as likely to get covid from a vaccinated shipmate as you are from an unvaccinated shipmate. Do some research!!! If you are going to sue your employer over getting covid start shopping around for a lawyer now because it’s probably going to happen. You should request an unvaccinated crewmember now to start building your case. Even if he isn’t the one who gives it to you, you can still use him as the scapegoat.
How many Jones Act lawsuits have you been involved in?
If a crew member comes down with C19 aboard the vessel, it doesn’t matter how they got it. The company pays for medical expenses and maintenance.
Moreover: If the company did not have a vaccination requirement, and an unvaccinated person brings C19 board, and another crewmember catches it, resulting in death or lasting illness, the plaintiff’s lawyer can easily claim the company did not do everything they could to prevent the plaintiff from getting C19.
The fact that a vaccinated person also has a smaller but real chance of spreading C19 means nothing. The plaintiff’s lawyer will argue that the company could have reduced the chance of C19 aboard the vessel, but willfully and knowingly decided not to, because the company is evil, etc., etc…
Jones Act medical lawsuits are all about dickering, not medicine, and the longer the dickering goes on–the more pretext there is to dicker-- the more expensive they are for companies. The lawsuits are usually settled out-of-court, and the argument used above will drive the price of the settlement up considerably. Yet another reason some companies require vaccinations.
