Companies hair testing, peeing in a cup just doesn't cut it anymore

[QUOTE=tengineer;64422]Do their decisions regarding rational and responsible behavior include their very own decision to fight adequate rest rules, proper manning and failure to adequately maintain their vessels?

Why is the mariner held to a higher standard than those who direct their work and working conditions?[/QUOTE]

Well put, Well said, too bad no one from management has the balls to answer this (honestly) or No one from Ownership level is willing to comment either. Profit is paramount.

This was recently (1996) found in the Eklof Scandia/North Cape incident that the company WAS held accountable for mismanagement, and illegal actions regarding maintenance and management decisions on vessel accountability. After the Bouchard Evening Tide/ B no.120 grounding in Buzzards Bay in 2003 that company was held accountable and even Sir Morty was removed (by court order) from the day to day management of his own company for 6 months. So it HAS happened, at a select few companies, but not enough I fear.

[QUOTE=Steamer;64433]Yeah, to the best of my knowledge, the USA is the only country that mandates drug testing of mariners. Other nations (at least those flags I deal with) believe what a mariner does when not onboard is his or her business. It isn’t like the US has the lowest accident rate or anything, we just have the most invasive and profitable industry built around watching people urinate.

I’ll go along with the idea of a quickly rising tide of American fascism. We have become a shining example of what the old timers from 1930s Germany drooled about creating.[/QUOTE]

Exactly …

Not that I disagree with you, but now days we do have a ton people using crazy drugs that were not even around/used 20 years ago. I know I show up to work with nothing to hide nor do I really give a shit about peeing into a cup.

[QUOTE=Steamer;64433]
It isn’t like the US has the lowest accident rate or anything, we just have the most invasive and profitable industry built around watching people urinate.[/QUOTE]

Ive never been to the doctor in the USA to renew my health Certificate so i cant speak for those procedures, but you should just have known how much shit someone from the Philippines has to endure just to get a health Certificate. We are talking about a days where they run all kind of tests and you can even expect that they inspect your genitalia and get a finger up your behind. If youre a senior officer you even have to take a long psychic evaluation to evaluate your mental health. The medical also have to be renewed everytime they sign on a new ship.

Sometimes i feel sorry for my Filipino colleagues. :frowning:

[QUOTE=rshrew;64442]Not that I disagree with you, but now days we do have a ton people using crazy drugs that were not even around/used 20 years ago. I know I show up to work with nothing to hide nor do I really give a shit about peeing into a cup.[/QUOTE]

Peeing in a cup doesn’t bother me too much as long as they don’t check for Viagra or stool softener but hair samples that go back months do bother me as it has NOTHING to do with your current condition. Next thing you know they’ll be wanting to inspect the medicine cabinet in your bathroom and look in your refrigerator; all as a condition of employment.
tengineer

[QUOTE=CFD;64443]… you can even expect that they inspect your genitalia and get a finger up your behind. [/QUOTE]

That is what they do here … the only difference is you can be a complete whacko and still sail or get a job running Marad or the USMMA.

[QUOTE=Steamer;64448]That is what they do here … the only difference is you can be a complete whacko and still sail or get a job running Marad or the USMMA.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking about taking a new medical i Seattle, but glad i didnt! Its miles away from what we do here in Europe…I got a new medical abt 1week ago and it was all over in less than 1hour. They checked weight , vision ,hearing and blood pressure. As a company procedure they also check for D/A via Urine and a blood sample to check for chemical damage and a cholera vaccine. Anything else would be an invasion of privacy as its irrelevant.

[QUOTE=tengineer;64445]Peeing in a cup doesn’t bother me too much /QUOTE]

But … But … What if you’re pee shy?

Look, we gotta have some fun on this forum ..
Sorry tengineer, I don't know what came over me (Oh, such poor choices of words!)
My Gawd, if I ever thought our US Merchant Marine would evolved in this manner I'm sure I'd op-out and drive a truck (WHAT !! - Same thing there too).
We're fucked !!
Say, pee shy guys have rights too !

So I don’t mind peeing in a cup(or giving hair or what ever), I’ve got nothing to hide and did it about four days ago… BUT here’s a question for you… What would happen if someone went to Amsterdam, on a personal vacation, smoked dope where it is LEGAL, Had the stamp in their passport to prove they were there. So, NO LAWS WERE BROKEN,but there would be THC in their hair samples. They came home and had to give hair samples a month or two later, Now what? They broke no laws, or did anything wrong. If they drove 120MPH on the autobahn, while in Europe, they don’t get back to the U.S. and get a speeding ticket do they? Just something to ponder.

[QUOTE=Steamer;64448]That is what they do here … the only difference is you can be a complete whacko and still sail or get a job running Marad or the USMMA.[/QUOTE]
Steamer, you are so much fun.
I beg your pardon, I worked very hard to be “a complete whackko” (are you sure of your spelling?)

[QUOTE=bell47;64451]So I don’t mind peeing in a cup(or giving hair or what ever), I’ve got nothing to hide and did it about four days ago… BUT here’s a question for you… What would happen if someone went to Amsterdam, on a personal vacation, smoked dope where it is LEGAL, Had the stamp in their passport to prove they were there. So, NO LAWS WERE BROKEN,but there would be THC in their hair samples. They came home and had to give hair samples a month or two later, Now what? They broke no laws, or did anything wrong. If they drove 120MPH on the autobahn, while in Europe, they don’t get back to the U.S. and get a speeding ticket do they? Just something to ponder.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, bell47

Your choices:

  1. Pee in the cup, and shut the heck up
  2. Don’t pee in the cup and go work at Walmart
  3. Understand clearly that true Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology and not related in any way to moderately intrusive corporate policies.
  4. Don’t worry, be happy.

I’m being serious and inquisitive when I ask this question. What choice do we have? Refusing to pee in a cup is the same as a failed drug test. Either way we lose our ability to sail. What can we do about it? I don’t see a way we can fight it.

We are test by the DOT and I have no problem with that but now the oil companies have the DISA testing and it seems illegal.

They already do! Annual physicals ask for ALL medicine you take scrip or not. It’s just that they are asking us now, instead of looking for it. Same thing.

[QUOTE=richard8000milesaway;64460]Your choices:

  1. Pee in the cup, and shut the heck up
  2. Don’t pee in the cup and go work at Walmart
  3. Understand clearly that true Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology and not related in any way to moderately intrusive corporate policies.
  4. Don’t worry, be happy.[/QUOTE]

You have to pee in a cup to work at Walmart. As far as I know they don’t shave your pit hair though

Mandatory testing for welfare recipients! Not professional mariners!

Just had to submit to my first hair test a couple of weeks ago…BULLSHIT! Just like the previous poster, my test wasn’t even required by the company that hired me, it was required by the oil company so I could “transit” their dock/facility to get to the tug.

Worst part was the lack of professionalism by the guy who collected my sample- he took me back to a room and sat me down in a chair with my back to him, and then without any warning or instruction, just walked up behind me and started hacking clumps from the top of my head. After he had gathered enough, he went over to a counter behind me and started packing up my sample. I was shocked that I was not given the option to witness any of this, so I got up from my chair and stood next to him so I could see what the hell he was doing. My hair was placed in a piece of aluminum foil he tore off a roll and then slipped into an envelope and sealed. When I asked to see the seal number to I could confirm that it matched the paperwork I was signing, he seemed put off and reluctantly agreed. I politely explained that the results of this test directly affect my ability to earn a living for my family, and I wanted to make sure that there was no way things could get mixed up. He shrugged his shoulders and exclaimed “whatever”. Needless to say, I was a little pissed. As you all know, with UA the collector opens the sealed cup and you are allowed / required to witness the whole thing. Then when the sample is split, the two viles are opened by breaking little plastic seals so there is no way for you to argue that things have been tampered with. However, if I had not stood up and insisted on witnessing my hair sample being sealed up, the guy could have done anything he wanted. I’m not suggesting that this guy was trying to F me over, but if my sample was somehow contaminated it would be me fighing for my job, not him.

I think this whole business of looking at what people do in their private lives, away from work, is complete bullshit. If the boat crews get tested, the whole company should be tested all the way up to the CEfuckingO. I agree that it is important that the guys and gals operating your equipment are sober, but what position is more important than the guy operating the whole f-ing company?? How about the CFO who is responsible for millions or billions of dollars?

Finally, thinking about the Amsterdam comment…I think most people would be happier if we just F-ING LEGALIZE weed all ready. I mean, give me a fucking break. As most of you probably all ready know, weed is a great way to relax and reduce stress (I’m told). But, because of pee and hair tests, [B]we are encouraged to be drunks instead[/B]- which leads to domestic disputes, drunk driving and liver failure. Bottom line: everyone should be sober at work, and they have a brethalizer that can test for weed as well as alcohol. If you are high or drunk at work I don’t want you on my boat. But, if you like to relax with a little medicne from your garden in the privacy of your own home its none of my business. If they want to keep drug testing for meth, coke, herion etc. I don’t care because people who regularly use those need help anyway and I don’t know anyone who likes to[I] occasionally [/I]unwind with a little meth…you either abuse it or you don’t.

Legalize weed, check for sobrity when employees crew up, screen for “hard” drugs, and I bet you would have less alcoholism, less hypertension, more relaxed and happy crews. Oh yeah, and the gov’t can tax that shit and make a ton of cash too.

Guys, let’s keep the discussion away from politics. Not that I don’t agree with you but venting on a international stage about our problems isn’t going to help anything. Especially when there are, right now, places that are much worse… when I worked in Malaysia, for example, my employer refused to drug test us because the penalty there for a positive whiz quiz is life in jail!

[QUOTE=john;64677]Guys, let’s keep the discussion away from politics. Not that I don’t agree with you but venting on a international stage about our problems isn’t going to help anything. Especially when there are, right now, places that are much worse… when I worked in Malaysia, for example, my employer refused to drug test us because the penalty there for a positive whiz quiz is life in jail![/QUOTE]

[B]John, I have to disagree with you on this one.

If you can’t vent here, politics or not, game over.

[/B]