Coming to the GoM

Offshore
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[QUOTE=tugsailor;169305]It sounds more similar to the Canadian unions than the US.

It appears to me that the biggest difference from the US is shipowners union. Are all companies in the shipowner’s union? Does every company in the shipowner’s union operating a similar type of vessels have the same pay and benefits? [/QUOTE] Yes, they can pay more than the collective agreement stipulates but that is rare.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;169305]In the US, there are several different unions that compete for contracts with the owners. The owners do not have a union. The unions negotiate separately with each company. The worst part about it is the unions competing for contracts by offering lower wages. The deep sea (deep draft foreign going ships) unions are better than the coastal and inland unions. Some unions, such as the United Steel Workers, and International Union of Operating Engineers are not seafaring unions, but in some cases they organize seafarers and compete for contracts with shipowners. [/QUOTE] So what you have are a race to the bottom.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;169305]Getting back to Island Offshore, they must be in the shipowner’s union and pay the same wages and benefits as other Norwegian shipowners. However, I wonder if they have some way to pay their American seafarers less? The problem with the Island Offshore work culture must be the Chouest bayou attitudes toward employees, and the American employees that accept those attitudes.[/QUOTE] It depends on how Island Offshore register the vessels. The agreement between the employers union and the employee union is different depending on trading area and which flag the vessel is registered on. It’s some of the reason Norwegian Vessels can compete on the world markets. We have NOR flag that can carry cargo between Norwegian harbors and NIS that can not carry cargo between harbors. NIS is more used outside Norwegian waters. NIS - NOR

43

[QUOTE=tugsailor;169305]Getting back to Island Offshore, they must be in the shipowner’s union and pay the same wages and benefits as other Norwegian shipowners. However, I wonder if they have some way to pay their American seafarers less? The problem with the Island Offshore work culture must be the Chouest bayou attitudes toward employees, and the American employees that accept those attitudes.[/QUOTE]

let’s make one small correction to this discussion…shipowner’s don’t have unions they belong to, they have associations.

Regarding everything you speculate about Island Offshore working in the GoM goes, you cannot be more correct. If it was not for ECO being the operator, their ships in the GoM would be run like a Norwegian vessels and not like American. This is the entire GoM situation in a nutshell, it is the backwards and regressive ways of Joe Boss and the acquiescence of the US mariners to accept Joe’s employee unfriendly ways to operate his business. It will never change I am afraid and am sickened by it all.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;169324]let’s make one small correction to this discussion…shipowner’s don’t have unions they belong to, they have associations.[/QUOTE]
Mhm, something was lost in translation :confused: Association is correct, but I’m not sure the English meaning is the same as the Norwegian.

Edit:
I was wrong about The Norwegian Shipowners’ Association, it is a independent association, they just collaborate with Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise. As such the definition of association works. They are a interest and employer organization.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;169324]let’s make one small correction to this discussion…shipowner’s don’t have unions they belong to, they have associations.

Regarding everything you speculate about Island Offshore working in the GoM goes, you cannot be more correct. [B]If it was not for ECO being the operator, their ships in the GoM would be run like a Norwegian vessels and not like American. This is the entire GoM situation in a nutshell, it is the backwards and regressive ways of Joe Boss and the acquiescence of the US mariners to accept Joe’s employee unfriendly ways to operate his business.[/B] It will never change I am afraid and am sickened by it all.[/QUOTE]

Speaking to some Seacor folks their thoughts were because American companies sell their boats fairly quickly nowadays or ship them off to Africa to work. So they don’t spend the money to make them nice. I know that Norwegian companies tend to keep their vessels active longer. It basically comes down to this: Americans build to a budget, then cut the budget. Norwegians build to a standard.

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[QUOTE=cajaya;169294]Nothing I love more also then when deckhands/ ab’s/deck department in general and limited licenses want talk about engineering when they have no fucking idea what they are talking about. If you are talking about the stupid battery discussion, I stand by my case. [I]Starting[/I] batteries are for starting [I]only[/I], accept for people’s personal/[I]unisnpected[/I] fishing boats with outboard motors etc. AB’s captains, mates dde’s, deckhands, office idiots etc have no say so in the matter. I am a technician I work in the field of installing, repairing, troubleshooting marine electrical equipment and components. I don’t need to call a tech. I AM a tech.[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

Based on the depth of knowledge that you have displayed in this little pond and the size of the chip on your shoulder, you wouldn’t have lasted a week in my engine room. . . oh, but that was many years ago. . . 2 years experience? What a fool. . . . . and gender has nothing to do with it. . . sigh. . . .

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[QUOTE=cmakin;169343] . . and gender has nothing to do with it. . . sigh. . . .[/QUOTE]
I’m sure it doesn’t. That is why there are no female lead chief engineers running their own boat down there, period.

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Oh fer f*** sake. How did this go from “hey there’s a huge foreign built and flagged boat coming to the GOM” to bashing on battery chief again?!

49

This is not factual. I know of 2 on newbuild, diesel electric, DP 2 vessels.

50

Perhaps, but not at the company I worked at. I was a spectacle down there as a female qmed and people made a point to tell me it as well as to tick off the names over and over again of the other few women who worked in the engine department down there. One, whose daddy was a chief and she only sailed with him, and another who somehow got a chance after requesting time and time again to work in the engine department, and then a few female engineers from academies that had their own watch…but no chiefs. As in chief of the vessel. Nada. Zero. Everybody knows everybody or has heard of them. Never heard of one. Never saw one.

51

Remember the name Emma Sanchez…
The incorrect ellipses are just for you.

52 
Also I believe one on a 320 as well. But hey who lets facts get in the way of the overall narrative?
53

Like I said, maybe a different company.

54

[QUOTE=c.captain;169287]only into having the Jones Act liability for the seamen but not at all for transporting anything from a dock to offshore or visa versa[/QUOTE]

So how does that apply to ECO with their foreign flagged vessels? Or HOS? Owned and manned by Americans.

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[QUOTE=Kraken;169292]To cover the basics:
Norway uses civil law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
Norway have the Nordic model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Norway have Collective bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining

We have four unions on Norwegian vessels for employees
• The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association – independent union, have negotiating rights.
• Norwegian Union of Marine Engineers – connected to Unio, have negotiation rights. http://www.unio.no/no/english
• Norwegian Seafarers’ Union – connected to The Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions, have negotiation rights. http://www.lo.no/language/English/
• Federation for Seafarers – independent union, but do not have negotiating rights.

And one union for shipowners/Employers
• The Norwegian Shipowners’ Association https://www.rederi.no/en/ - connected to Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise https://www.nho.no/en/

We have freedom of association in Norway so an employer and employee have the right to negotiate themselves. However its most common that the unions negotiate on on behalf of the parties.

The union for employers and the unions for employees agrees every 4 years on a collective agreement that covers the ground rules of the workplace. This is the only time the employees are allowed to strike. Between the collective agreements, we have “peace” and a strike will be a wildcat strike, and grounds for termination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining

The agreements covers different trading areas. In my case, I am covered by trading area “NOR” - Offshore service vessels - fixed salary for officers and electricians.
It stipulates wage, working hours and welfare.
The agreement covers all officers and electricians on Offshore service vessels even if they are not in a union.
So it is completely voluntary whether one will be organized in a Union as a employee, but you get help, like a free attorney in case of labor dispute if you are a member of a union.

Short Version is:
The company and the union have already agreed on the wage, work rotation, work hours and welfare. It will cover all employees in the company even if they are not in a union. When I was employed, I sign an agreement that I accepted it. I joined The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association to be entitled to a free attorney in case of labor dispute and voting rights in the union.

I have not covered everything and I am reasonably sure that some of what I have written is not 100% right but this is the basics of how the workplace is organized in Norway.[/QUOTE]

Employer/employee situation in Norway is similar to most developed countries, it just sounds strange to those from the USA and other less developed countries. It is also common in other countries to have working people on the board of directors of the company where they work. Though it is certainly no utopia it is a more constructive and less adversarial system of corporate governance than most USA citizens are accustomed to. US companies used to have “personnel” managers now they have “human resource” managers. This I suppose is to differentiate between resources like steel, fuel, water and other things. But at the end of the day the individual is as valued and has the same rights as any other inanimate resource
.

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[QUOTE=John Galt;169359]So how does that apply to ECO with their foreign flagged vessels? Or HOS? Owned and manned by Americans.[/QUOTE]

neither company can lift cargo to or from the OCS in the GoM and both have the same liability for their American mariners on their foreign vessels as on their US flagged. One way to skirt this is to charter the foreign vessel from a foreign company not more than 49% held by American corporate or citizen interests. Who owns more than 49% of Island Offshore? Gary Chouest or the Norwegians?

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[QUOTE=cajaya;169356]Like I said, maybe a different company.[/QUOTE]

But you posted, “That is why there are no female lead chief engineers running their own boat down there, period.”, NOT qualifying it then. . . sheesh. . .

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[QUOTE=c.captain;169363]neither company can lift cargo to or from the OCS in the GoM and both have the same liability for their American mariners on their foreign vessels as on their US flagged. One way to skirt this is to charter the foreign vessel from a foreign company not more than 49% held by American corporate or citizen interests. Who owns more than 49% of Island Offshore? Gary Chouest or the Norwegians?[/QUOTE]

I think Island is 50/50 between ECO and Ulstein.

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[QUOTE=John Galt;169416]I think Island is 50/50 between ECO and Ulstein.[/QUOTE]

per 33CFR part141.05(b)3 exactly 50%/50% would mean that Island Offshore would be under control of ECO when operating in the GoM and thus US manning required but it the Norwegian interests owned 50.0001% then Island Offshore would be considered as foreign controlled and thus US manning not required…isn’t the law just so lovely? Why any business is allowed to operate in the USA without being incorporated in the USA is astounding to me and a complete and utter giveaway of jobs for American citizens. I CANNOT GIVE ANY STRONGER CONDEMNATION AGAINST OUR OWN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR BEING SO UTTERLY COMPLICIT IN THIS CRIME AGAINST AMERICAN MARINERS!

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