[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;169253]Where are you getting your information on what an American Union is like?[/QUOTE]
It’s more that I know how a Norwegian Union works like and i’m using deductive reasoning from what i’m reading her and other sites on the Internet about US union system.
I can go in more detail on how the unions works on Norwegian vessels if it is of interest.
That’s good maybe I’ll send Fredo around with the car to pick you up by the fruit stand.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;169259]That’s good maybe I’ll send Fredo around with the car to pick you up by the fruit stand.[/QUOTE]
ah, my worthless and weak son Fredo…not like Sonny who was to be my heir apparent and knew how to put a bullet into the back of a man’s head! Michael, son…I wanted for you to go to KP and become a Admiralty lawyer chasing Jones Act injury claims or maybe being someday the president of the SIU. There was more far money in those rackets than any of the other “businesses” the famiglia ever engaged in. Of course, I always wanted into the GoM supply vessel business but don Gary made sure I could never enter. Tried to put a contract out on him, but every time I paid a hitman to get him, he just offered him a largeOSV master’s job on his boats which I could never beat. I threw millions away before I had to concede he owned that turf and I never would ever be able to play on his effing lawn.
Sometimes even the Godfather has to admit there is a bigger Godfather yet and for me, that man is don Gary Chouest
.
Pop we’re going legit, I’ve sold all the family’s business interests on the bayou. We’re moving to Seattle and going into the delivery business. I’m gonna find Moe Saltchuck and make him an offer he can’t refuse. 
[QUOTE=Kraken;169214]Im pretty sure it is a full American crew. Island Offshore is rumoured to be a shit company to work for anyway. And who in their right mind wants to work in a hostile place like the US GoM.[/QUOTE]
I’ve worked on numerous Norwegian vessels in the GoM. All of the crews who were here enjoyed it for the most part. And the atmosphere was usually much better than on the American vessels I’ve worked on. Obviously anyone would prefer to work in their own backyard.
I think the main culture difference is that on a foreign flagged vessel, the atmosphere is much more laid back. They don’t have “snitch” policies in place. If you’re alongside, you can go have a few beers after shift without an issue. With most American companies you can’t do that. From working with American’s who’ve worked in the North Sea, they say that the difference is you’re treated like an adult in the North Sea. In the GoM, you’re treated like a child.
[QUOTE=Kraken;169258]It’s more that I know how a Norwegian Union works like and i’m using deductive reasoning from what i’m reading her and other sites on the Internet about US union system.
I can go in more detail on how the unions works on Norwegian vessels if it is of interest.[/QUOTE]
I’d like to hear more about Norwegian unions.
[QUOTE=John Galt;169267] From working with American’s who’ve worked in the North Sea, they say that the difference is you’re treated like an adult in the North Sea. In the GoM, you’re treated like a child.[/QUOTE]
I’ve heard this elsewhere too. Why i take a shit paycheck in exchange for being treated at least like a teenager.
[QUOTE=freighterman;169256] Remember: the non-union GoM captain might slam the union tug captain over work culture,… [/QUOTE]
I think two tug captain would find that the culture on board has far more to do with their own personalty and character, the type of work, the run, the company they worked for, the experience of the crew and almost nothing to do with union / non-union. It’s not like there is union and non-union sea water, current, wind, tow wire, shackles etc. I’ve worked both union and non-union tugs and it’s all the same shit. Practicality speaking the union status has very little to do with the day to day operation of the boat.
Here’s a question for the board.
What if a foreign vessel owner (Solstadt, Boa, DOF, etc) brought foreign flagged vessels here but started a crewing company, hiring Americans, to man them. Would that be compliant in the Jones Act view?
[QUOTE=John Galt;169283]Here’s a question for the board.
What if a foreign vessel owner (Solstadt, Boa, DOF, etc) brought foreign flagged vessels here but started a crewing company, hiring Americans, to man them. Would that be compliant in the Jones Act view?[/QUOTE]
only into having the Jones Act liability for the seamen but not at all for transporting anything from a dock to offshore or visa versa
[QUOTE=tugsailor;169268]I’d like to hear more about Norwegian unions.[/QUOTE]
first thing is that they are mandatory in the North Sea regardless of the nationality of the vessel owner
Well, sounds like cajaya just can’t make it out here and got her feelings hurt so she now just sits back an talks shit a out the GOM. Is it the best place to work, fuck no. But hey, it’s a job and it pays my bills better then any shoreside job. So ill deal with being dealt like a teenager. Don’t bother me a bit. Just keep paying me… And cajaya, I hope our reading this, just cause you have paperwork that days you can do something dosent mean you can do it. I see you talkig shit about the GOM and all I see is someone who got ran off cause their paperwork said they could do something but in all reality, you ain’t about shit…
It’s not that hard to be an engineer on an OSV. A trained monkey could do it. Btw, there’s nothing I love more than taking shit from people who have been in the industry for less than two years.
Well that’s good for you. I’ve been on OSV’s for close to 2 years but been out here for about 3 yrs. I’m not saying its hard, I’m just saying you couldn’t make it and now that’s why you have such harsh feelings towards the GOM. That’s m opinion though. I’ve seen it proven time and time again on here how you have no idea what the hell your talking about…
[QUOTE=tugsailor;169268]I’d like to hear more about Norwegian unions.[/QUOTE]
To cover the basics:
Norway uses civil law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
Norway have the Nordic model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Norway have Collective bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
We have four unions on Norwegian vessels for employees
• The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association – independent union, have negotiating rights.
• Norwegian Union of Marine Engineers – connected to Unio, have negotiation rights. http://www.unio.no/no/english
• Norwegian Seafarers’ Union – connected to The Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions, have negotiation rights. http://www.lo.no/language/English/
• Federation for Seafarers – independent union, but do not have negotiating rights.
And one union for shipowners/Employers
• The Norwegian Shipowners’ Association https://www.rederi.no/en/ - connected to Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise https://www.nho.no/en/
We have freedom of association in Norway so an employer and employee have the right to negotiate themselves. However its most common that the unions negotiate on on behalf of the parties.
The union for employers and the unions for employees agrees every 4 years on a collective agreement that covers the ground rules of the workplace. This is the only time the employees are allowed to strike. Between the collective agreements, we have “peace” and a strike will be a wildcat strike, and grounds for termination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
The agreements covers different trading areas. In my case, I am covered by trading area “NOR” - Offshore service vessels - fixed salary for officers and electricians.
It stipulates wage, working hours and welfare.
The agreement covers all officers and electricians on Offshore service vessels even if they are not in a union.
So it is completely voluntary whether one will be organized in a Union as a employee, but you get help, like a free attorney in case of labor dispute if you are a member of a union.
Short Version is:
The company and the union have already agreed on the wage, work rotation, work hours and welfare. It will cover all employees in the company even if they are not in a union. When I was employed, I sign an agreement that I accepted it. I joined The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association to be entitled to a free attorney in case of labor dispute and voting rights in the union.
I have not covered everything and I am reasonably sure that some of what I have written is not 100% right but this is the basics of how the workplace is organized in Norway.
[QUOTE=josh.reid24;169291]Well that’s good for you. I’ve been on OSV’s for close to 2 years but been out here for about 3 yrs. I’m not saying its hard, I’m just saying you couldn’t make [U][/U]it and now that’s why you have such harsh feelings towards the GOM. That’s m opinion though. I’ve seen it proven time and time again on here how you have no idea what the hell your talking about…[/QUOTE]
Nothing I love more also then when deckhands/ ab’s/deck department in general and limited licenses want talk about engineering when they have no fucking idea what they are talking about. If you are talking about the stupid battery discussion, I stand by my case. [I]Starting[/I] batteries are for starting [I]only[/I], accept for people’s personal/[I]unisnpected[/I] fishing boats with outboard motors etc. AB’s captains, mates dde’s, deckhands, office idiots etc have no say so in the matter. I am a technician I work in the field of installing, repairing, troubleshooting marine electrical equipment and components. I don’t need to call a tech. I AM a tech.
[QUOTE=Kraken;169292]To cover the basics:
Norway uses civil law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
Norway have the Nordic model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Norway have Collective bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
We have four unions on Norwegian vessels for employees
• The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association – independent union, have negotiating rights.
• Norwegian Union of Marine Engineers – connected to Unio, have negotiation rights. http://www.unio.no/no/english
• Norwegian Seafarers’ Union – connected to The Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions, have negotiation rights. http://www.lo.no/language/English/
• Federation for Seafarers – independent union, but do not have negotiating rights.
And one union for shipowners/Employers
• The Norwegian Shipowners’ Association https://www.rederi.no/en/ - connected to Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise https://www.nho.no/en/
We have freedom of association in Norway so an employer and employee have the right to negotiate themselves. However its most common that the unions negotiate on on behalf of the parties.
The union for employers and the unions for employees agrees every 4 years on a collective agreement that covers the ground rules of the workplace. This is the only time the employees are allowed to strike. Between the collective agreements, we have “peace” and a strike will be a wildcat strike, and grounds for termination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
The agreements covers different trading areas. In my case, I am covered by trading area “NOR” - Offshore service vessels - fixed salary for officers and electricians.
It stipulates wage, working hours and welfare.
The agreement covers all officers and electricians on Offshore service vessels even if they are not in a union.
So it is completely voluntary whether one will be organized in a Union as a employee, but you get help, like a free attorney in case of labor dispute if you are a member of a union.
Short Version is:
The company and the union have already agreed on the wage, work rotation, work hours and welfare. It will cover all employees in the company even if they are not in a union. When I was employed, I sign an agreement that I accepted it. I joined The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association to be entitled to a free attorney in case of labor dispute and voting rights in the union.
I have not covered everything and I am reasonably sure that some of what I have written is not 100% right but this is the basics of how the workplace is organized in Norway.[/QUOte]
Sounds like a good deal, maybe I will migrate to Norway. Can you work over there if you are not Norwegian?
[QUOTE=cajaya;169295]Sounds like a good deal, maybe I will migrate to Norway. Can you work over there if you are not Norwegian?[/QUOTE]
You need a work visa in EU or EEA https://www.nav.no/workinnorway/ and a endorsement https://www.sjofartsdir.no/en/seafarers/apply-for-maritime-certificates-online/apply-for-endorsement/
But the work marked offshore in Norway is just shit right now. Company’s are downsizing in the moment and this will not stop soon.
I can also cover how termination from the workplace works since I myself lost my job in a downsizing.
We use seniority in the company, so if a vessel is laid up, the company will go over the work contracts of all employees in the company and the ones with the shortest time will lose their job.
First, they check all the Masters, and if they have too many Masters, the Master that is redundant will be checked up against the Chief Officers, if the Master have been employed longer then a Chief Officer the Master will take over the job of the Chief Officer. The Chief Officer will then compete with the 2nd Officers and the 2nd Officer with the shortest time in the company will lose his job. (That was me)
First, I got an e-mail giving me a date for a discussion meeting where we discussed whether there were any circumstances indicating that I should not be fired. As a single male with low loans and no commitments, I did not have any mitigating circumstances.
Then I was fired and got a month’s notice.
I was fired on the first day of a new trip and that means that when I get of work in 2 weeks I will be out of a job. However, I still have one-month worth of pay left from the company, and cannot get unemployment benefits before the month after that from NAV https://www.nav.no/en/Home/Benefits+and+services/Unemployment+benefits
I can claim unemployment benefits for 104 weeks as long as I am active looking for a job. The unemployment benefits is 62,4% of 6G (1G is 10905, 5 USD) and is payed 5 days a week, as such I get 96,4 USD after taxes a day (148 usd before taxes) Monday to Friday.
It doesn’t look like much in USD, but that’s because the NOK has lost a lot of value against the USD the last months. http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/USDNOK:CUR
With the unemployment benefits, working in Norway is easy. You don’t have to worry that losing your job is the end of the world.
[QUOTE=John Galt;169267]I think the main culture difference is that on a foreign flagged vessel, the atmosphere is much more laid back. They don’t have “snitch” policies in place. If you’re alongside, you can go have a few beers after shift without an issue. With most American companies you can’t do that. From working with American’s who’ve worked in the North Sea, they say that the difference is you’re treated like an adult in the North Sea. In the GoM, you’re treated like a child.[/QUOTE]
We don’t have the “snitch policies” but Facebook is really destroying the laid back atmosphere. Young trainees now days are on facebook writing shit, all the fucking time. And when the company owner and the employees are from the same place, it doesn’t take long before people back home hear what is happening on the vessel.
[QUOTE=Kraken;169292]To cover the basics:
Norway uses civil law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
Norway have the Nordic model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Norway have Collective bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
We have four unions on Norwegian vessels for employees
• The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association – independent union, have negotiating rights.
• Norwegian Union of Marine Engineers – connected to Unio, have negotiation rights. http://www.unio.no/no/english
• Norwegian Seafarers’ Union – connected to The Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions, have negotiation rights. http://www.lo.no/language/English/
• Federation for Seafarers – independent union, but do not have negotiating rights.
And one union for shipowners/Employers
• The Norwegian Shipowners’ Association https://www.rederi.no/en/ - connected to Confederation of Norwegian Enterprise https://www.nho.no/en/
We have freedom of association in Norway so an employer and employee have the right to negotiate themselves. However its most common that the unions negotiate on on behalf of the parties.
The union for employers and the unions for employees agrees every 4 years on a collective agreement that covers the ground rules of the workplace. This is the only time the employees are allowed to strike. Between the collective agreements, we have “peace” and a strike will be a wildcat strike, and grounds for termination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_bargaining
The agreements covers different trading areas. In my case, I am covered by trading area “NOR” - Offshore service vessels - fixed salary for officers and electricians.
It stipulates wage, working hours and welfare.
The agreement covers all officers and electricians on Offshore service vessels even if they are not in a union.
So it is completely voluntary whether one will be organized in a Union as a employee, but you get help, like a free attorney in case of labor dispute if you are a member of a union.
Short Version is:
The company and the union have already agreed on the wage, work rotation, work hours and welfare. It will cover all employees in the company even if they are not in a union. When I was employed, I sign an agreement that I accepted it. I joined The Norwegian Maritime Officers’ Association to be entitled to a free attorney in case of labor dispute and voting rights in the union.
I have not covered everything and I am reasonably sure that some of what I have written is not 100% right but this is the basics of how the workplace is organized in Norway.[/QUOTE]
It sounds more similar to the Canadian unions than the US.
It appears to me that the biggest difference from the US is shipowners union. Are all companies in the shipowner’s union? Does every company in the shipowner’s union operating a similar type of vessels have the same pay and benefits?
In the US, there are several different unions that compete for contracts with the owners. The owners do not have a union. The unions negotiate separately with each company. The worst part about it is the unions competing for contracts by offering lower wages. The deep sea (deep draft foreign going ships) unions are better than the coastal and inland unions. Some unions, such as the United Steel Workers, and International Union of Operating Engineers are not seafaring unions, but in some cases they organize seafarers and compete for contracts with shipowners.
Getting back to Island Offshore, they must be in the shipowner’s union and pay the same wages and benefits as other Norwegian shipowners. However, I wonder if they have some way to pay their American seafarers less? The problem with the Island Offshore work culture must be the Chouest bayou attitudes toward employees, and the American employees that accept those attitudes.