One of the things at KP, or at least during my time, was that for most of the engineering and nautical courses, the tests were designed like the multiple choice Coast Guard exam questions. It got us used to that “I only”, “II only”, I and II" type questions.
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Very similar experience… I went to KP (Not as a cadet) probably after you to upgrade for BRM and simulators… Refreshing to see a couple of my former instructors from SIU there. Mr Allman and Mr Easter. A small world sir. I was deck, but would not be surprised that a few engineer type people from that era were hired by KP. They challenged us before “The Ponies” entered the platform. Pass our stuff, then you can see the real shit. Quite alright with that method. Son went through same shit. Told him if you know the subject, don’t worry. He did fine, 11th in his class at KP.
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I am hearing a lot about “Ponies”… As I recall the first real attempts at producing them came from Roger Caron (Former Mass Professor) somewhere around 1976 or so… They were Engineering only- and was grouped into each of the seven sections. Haven’t seen one of the in years- and yes they were color coded by subject.
The only one I ever used in that era was the Electricity one… However- when I took the Diesel Crossover (nearly 30 years ago) I knew Motor Plants very well by then- but for shit’s n giggles decided to buy and memorize the entire GPO Motor Plants I and II- I believe it was somewhere around 6000 questions… Needless to say that having an extremely good knowledge of the subject- memorizing was easy- took about two weeks. I passed Motor Plants I in 13 minutes and scored 100. They wouldn’t let me take Motor Plants II until the afternoon- had a cocktail at lunch… Got through the second module in about 17 minutes (probably less) and got one wrong…
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Further on the subject of testing…Probably the most difficult test I have ever taken (or sighted for that matter) was the PE License Exam for Naval Arch, two 60 question open book modules- timed… Everything from Statics, Dynamics, Nuclear Propulsion, Newtonian Physics, Shipbuilding and Repair (I aced that section) Refrigeration, Corrosion, Electricity and Power Distribution, Stability and Strength Calcs- a lot of beam theory, Welding Procedures., Fluid Dynamics… Sadly, I attempted twice and didn’t pass (Basically I was sunk on the Dynamics and and some of the Chain Formula Physics Calcs) but trying to work 10 hours a day and study for that beast was too much I guess…
Marine Engineers who go to sea are basically operating type engineers with a good solid background in many subjects, they are also masters at in situ- improptu repairs- I have been a Marine Engineer on both sides of the fence for more than 40 years, shipped mostly as C/E for 2/3’s of it- I have very rarely ever had to use the higher math calcs and formulas (a couple of Steam Turbine performance calcs on a max speed sea trial, usually a lot of electrical formulas to check instrumentation)… I’ve done quite a bit of vessel repair and retrofits…
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Ponies aren’t used for USCG license testing. They’re for individual classes. You don’t need a pony for the license test, you have the entire question bank.
And if you can’t pass after that you are incredibly stupid,
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Simply attempting to pass that test puts you head and shoulders above most folks.
You cant believe how much the USA DP schools bitched and whined about having a copy of the DP exam questions. ( Asia has now joined that cry mainly due to the instructors not knowing anything about DP)
I did lots of tests pre the exam going live, just random DP people that walked in the office, and I asked would mid telling us what you think, sit here and have a go.
They all passed or would have had the exam been live.
Yup. I moved over to tugs and an ITB in the 80s. Didn’t use and calculus, obviously, but became handy in fixing just about anything. I didn’t really think about it until we had a riding crew doing some barge maintenance, and they saw me doing my normal routine and commented that I could fix anything. . . I just told them that is my job description. . . .
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Cmakin, Just the guy I always looked for and found on a few occasions. . Perhaps you remember my post stealing a deckhand under dark of night in the river, Was being wasted as an OS tankerman. He studied and eventually became my chief engineer over the years. Was pissed I retired shortly after getting the job, I told him"Charlie" I knew you were headed for a better outcome. That’s why I grabbed you. He is a Chief today and his friends in Texas and whats left of the fleet respect him as do I. I made some mistakes in my career, that was not one of them. And no. he self studied and did not cheat on his test. Guy knew his stuff. Friends to this day.
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Yeah, I remember that one. I had an interesting case, similar, in a way. We got a new engineer on the ITB. He had an Oil and Mineral license, or whatever they called it in those days. He was my relief’s bartender in Galveston. Interestingly enough, his father was one of the Chief Engineers on the SAVANNAH. Well, I had be going through quiet a few assistants at the time, and I really wanted one that would pay attention and be a self starter. Well, this one didn’t seem to be. I remember being down in the engine room with him and giving him an informal quiz about the piping systems and he failed miserably, so I told the office not to have him come back. . . . well, when I came back from my time off, he was back onboard. . . . I have to tell you that he was a changed man. When we all got laid off and I went to work for Belcher, I heartily recommended him. I last saw him on an Overseas bulker back in the 90s and imagine that he has his unlimited CE license now. He told me that the best thing that ever happened to him was when I fired him. . . .
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I tested at RECs Baltimore and Charleston. Preferred Charleston because I’d make a mini vacation out of it, stay for a few days and hit some of the sights and restaurants. Anyway…in my recollection they seemed to do a good job of keeping an eye on test takers but I’m sure some people managed to walk in with formulae written on their arm or something. They riffled through my scratch paper. I always wrote my formulae on the paper so I had it in case my nerves later gave me a case of amnesia. You do this once you are seated at your desk (not prior).
I’d prep by reading and taking practice tests on Lapware. I didn’t find it useful or desirable to memorize test questions but would rather use the practice tests to focus on areas I was weak in. Never failed a module and generally scored in the mid 80’s.
The ones who memorize without understanding or cheat on exams eventually betray themselves. I worked with a third a/e who went on to (nearly) damage equipment by acting impulsively and who changed a valve line up during a fueling evolution without informing the PIC, so the company revoked his promotion and he had to sail as a QMED. These people can put your life or license on the line and it’s very stressful to have to deal with them. Fortunately will not have to deal with them again
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I’ve heard a few folks say that USCG licensed engineers are not truly "engineers". I’m not here to debate the semantics though.
Unlike the USCG exams, the PE exam is truly a well written and executed exam. People work full time to create new questions every year that truly test the competency of the test taker to be able to use his knowledge to solve the design problems presented.
There is very little fluff in the exam, almost no trivia, and one can solve the problems with a few key reference books (and code books, if needed). For most disciplines, only algebra is required.
Unlike the USCG exams, it is very hard to stumble through and pass a PE exam…the PE exam tests knowledge and the ability to correctly DESIGN STUFF. Pure memorization will not work. The design work is not a skillset that the average Cheng is going to master at sea…even though many say they posses the knowledge because muh license (big egos).
It truly does. And most merchant marine engineers would not even be given permission to take the test by most state professional engineer licensing boards…and even fewer would be able to pass it. But, I’m sure the know-all chiefs could scream and yell and tell why the test was WRONG! hahaha.
Absolutely correct. And yes, I have had a hand in design work- mostly retrofits- but also concept designs for two specialty cargo tank barges- I worked with a veteran Naval Arch- we did this while we were pursuing steel assessments aboard MARAD vessels… The prospective Owner wanted 50 year scantlings but later balked at the estimated construction cost!..
Going back about 30 years I worked for a certain Gulf company. There was a guy there that was very proud of how he cheated on his unlimited master exam. I will withhold names to protect the guilty.
The requirements and exam setup was very different back then. Instead of random computer generated questions on the exam sections. What they would do is have about 10 actual exams that you could get. So this guy memorized the answers to all of the questions on each exam. He made an imaginary sentence to help with this. So all he had to do was identify which exam he was given and recall the imaginary sentence for that exam and mark the answers down.
Rumor has it, he didn’t even sit down did the answer sheet at the Dutch door.
Same guy that only has one eye, and was notorious for firing people. I am hoping he is dead or retired by now.