What flavor is that Kool-Ade?
[QUOTE=c.captain;114296]so that is about the same to me as saying that Joe Boss has been forcefeeding us southerners shit for decades so it’s ok because we’re used to it and you Yankees need to eat the same shit as well so we all are eating it alike. BULLSHIT when Joe Boss is worth hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars! I won’t name names but they have initials GC, SG, OC(jr), TH, CF et all![/QUOTE]
We know we cant fight them over the money but what about sleep hours? Not to side track the issue but I know on the mud boats sometimes crew change you are changing out a good part of the crew. How do you handle the sleep hours?
[QUOTE=“captaint76;114299”]
What flavor is that Kool-Ade?[/QUOTE]
Instead of being snide, tell me what exactly you disagree with so we can discuss it.
It always works out for the employer in the end. If I look back over my stubs and schedule I can see where I have been screwed out of half days pay. This has been with multiple companies. Pay attention or they will get you.
Back when I was working on AT/B’s we DID NOT get paid for the first day back but we DID get paid for that Day the We Got Off. Not always fair but it was what it was.
Now back in the days of Local 333, crew change was to be between 1000-1400. If we got off before 1000 the on coming crew got OT for the extra time. If we got off after 1400 the off going crew got OT for how many hours on board after 1400. We also had certain ports up and down the coast and if we were on the coast and CC came up we would have to stop and change crews, if the company did not allow us to stop we would be on OT until till we finally get did got off.
The last company that I worked with allowed the Captains to call CC. What sucked on my vessel was that the Captain that I worked with had a shit home life and would stay on the vessel as long as possible and the opposite Captain works at home as a Pilot for the company so he wanted to be home as much as possible since he made more money while home. What this did was caused my crew to work longer and have less time at home.
The vessel that I was on ran from Pascagoula, Mississippi to Tampa, Florida. The two Captains decided that they would not CC in Pascagoula as they hated to fly. This caused us to either get off early (never made up happy) or work over. We tried to work 18 on 18 off, the rest of the company worker 21+21. Sometimes we would get off at 16 days and then work 24 days. This really sucked as it was very hard to plan anything in advance. When I was planning my Wedding I picked a date that should have been right in the center of my time off (a couple of months in the future). I ended getting of the day before my wedding.
OK, the reason that I wrote off of this is to try to let anyone and everyone that it is near impossible to make everyone happy when it comes to CC’s. I was more concerned about whether my Pay Check would come on time and be for the correct amount and when push comes to pull this is all that matters.
This shit happens in NY harbor as much as it does down south. Not sure why everyone is hating on Yankees. I fly from west to east coast on a red eye for my crew changes. I usually end up getting to our yard at 7 am and getting to the boat around 1300. Getting paid a full day would be great but I don’t see it happening anytime soon. People who are content to be fucked by the employer will certainly never see any change. My main concern on crew change day is how much grub did the other crew leave us and when can we take water, grub, and supplies on-board.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;114298]I don’t understand what the fuss is about. You are upset because you only get paid a half a day’s patty when you go to work even though you work a full shift (noon - midnight)? Cry me a river. Are you offering to give back the money you get for the day you leave and don’t work at all that day? The reason the system is fair is because it all equalizes out in the end.[/QUOTE]
And ultimately a union will cost more than half a day’s pay . . . .
[QUOTE=“captaint76;114305”]It always works out for the employer in the end. If I look back over my stubs and schedule I can see where I have been screwed out of half days pay. This has been with multiple companies. Pay attention or they will get you.[/QUOTE]
I don’t see a problem unless you get fucked every crew change. If you get to the boat at 0700 you work half a day if you are on midnight to noon, you work a full day if you are on the other watch. So you want to get paid that full day that you worked from noon to midnight? Then when you get off the boat at 0700 in four weeks and don’t work at all that day should you not get paid?
It happens more times than not. I’m not going to sit here and give you every single time and explain myself to you. I am however telling you that we regularly work more than 12 hours coming or going and get half pay for those days. It happens far more than working less than a half day and making a full days pay. I can not find a single time that has happened.
[QUOTE=captaint76;114320]It happens more times than not. I’m not going to sit here and give you every single time and explain myself to you. I am however telling you that we regularly work more than 12 hours coming or going and get half pay for those days. It happens far more than working less than a half day and making a full days pay. I can not find a single time that has happened.[/QUOTE]
the title of this thread is “Can they do that?” and I think everyone here should know that the companies can and do everytime they can to maximize profits at the expense of the workers, To further the insult, the law does not care! How anyone here can side with Joe Boss is simply beyond me but it certainly shows how the bad old days and worse old ways of the Bayou are painfully slow to change while our counterparts in the North Sea get the best possible everything and the oil operators there are more than willing to pay the price. It isn’t that Shell or BP or anybody else in the deepwater can’t afford the slightly added cost for mariners to get what they deserve. No, it is that the owners of the boats want all the money for themselves and will take it as long as the working stiffs on the boats allow them to.
so there you go…y’all get just what you are willing to fight for. Not willing to fight…then don’t expect anything!
Hell, I guess I must be doing something wrong then. I don’t remember working less that 16 hour days over the last decade. As I moved up the ranks, so did my hours working to be effective in that position.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;114298]I don’t understand what the fuss is about. You are upset because you only get paid a half a day’s patty when you go to work even though you work a full shift (noon - midnight)? Cry me a river. Are you offering to give back the money you get for the day you leave and don’t work at all that day? The reason the system is fair is because it all equalizes out in the end.[/QUOTE]
I’ve been working in this industry for almost 20 years and I can say with out a doubt that not only is this standard unfair its unethical as well! If you read my entire post you would have read the part about not compensating me for when I work over my 12 hour shift which had always been quite often and will be even more often due to the lack of qualified mariners in the industry. As far as only working a half day when I get off the boat, I have had my fair share of 12 hour work days on crew change day going home. Also 2 other things I wish to address: 1. I have no control of what time my crew change is scheduled. As is SOP it is handled by my coordinator and usually in conjunction with the clients needs. 2. As far as quitting and moving back up north; perhaps they wouldn’t need so many of us “Northerners” if there were enough qualified people willing to work south of Interstate 10!
Work 6/6 then you get “screwed” less on crewchange day. Up north we do get paid a whole day if we don’t get off until 1400 or so, but you better have a photocopy of the log to prove it when they “forget” on the first check. Early crewchange…what’s that? I get to the boat for noontime crewchange unless planned well in advance. if its not early enough, then too bad. My shipmates/relief play by the same policy but we don’t work for a joeboss the likes of the bayou.
Can they do that? Yes they can, compnaies can do whatever they want.
Having worked in the OSV industry and shoreside in the maritime industry, it is the same shoreside. Work shoreside on a salary, see what happens, paychecks states 40 hours a week and 60-80 is the norm. Work for weeks on end , work through several weekends and get from your manager : "hey take tommorow off ". you: "wow thanks, I have been on the job for three weeks "
Shoreside is no better in this aspect, it is called “life is not fair”. I am not bitching but this is how it goes. I am not backing up and sticking up for “business as usual” and “Joe Boss”. But Having been employed shoreside and shipside, I have seen it everywhere.
Have crew change at midnight. Problem solved.
At most places the time of the crew change is not at all up to the crew.
If they pushed for midnight, they could do it with the idea that they are “saving the company money” which always helps.
[QUOTE=jmad;114280]Why don’t you fight it? Sounds like you’ve already lost the battle with that kind of attitude. If you even choose to fight…[/QUOTE]
Hey, he’s only following in his pappys footsteps… why bother fight it, you’re gonna lose anyway to the nawth! Makes Cents to me! I particularly like the resignation in: working the (typical) 28 and 14 schedule. Typical for who??? I get it, do you get a ‘frequent lawyer discount’ for wives 1,2and 3, but after that it’s free?
Regarding ‘JoeBoss’, I don’t think it’s people respecting him, it’s people who are AFRAID of moving on, to better, bigger, more fair jobs. People get stuck in a rut, and employers know this. They work it to their advantage. If a couple guys quit, they would be up shit’s creek, but, down in the bayou there always seems someone willing to work for peanuts, under shitty conditions. Did someone mention Unions?
[QUOTE=z-drive;114393]If they pushed for midnight, they could do it with the idea that they are “saving the company money” which always helps.[/QUOTE]
The ‘patch’ doesn’t work this way. they have to schedule helicopter flights, launches, etc etc etc around hundreds of rigs, boats, and sites. This is why they have (sort of) built in delays to get a crew TO work and back ashore. They don’t have ONE helicopter standing by for each units crew change use. To me this sounds like the ‘minute counters’ who argue that crew change should be 47 minutes early next trip, because ‘we came in 22 an 25 minutes early the last two trips.’ I have found that over the year, the crew changes pretty much even out, a little early this time, a little late next time. someone is getting paid the first day, someone else is getting paid the last day. NO ONE gets paid the FIRST AND LAST day!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you aren’t required to work at all! You can sit at home and do nothing or you can find another company that suits your needs. The fact that you aren’t paid for sitting at your company’s office waiting for crew change is irrelevant because you are doing nothing except for going to work . Once you get on the boat at Fourchon is when you are actually at work and when you are actually paid. As for the company that I’m pretty sure you work for, no one forces you to get to the office the day before and sit at crew change against your will. Locals (which i am not) come and go easily and that’s the benefit of being a local - the same as if you crew change in Staten Island and live in NJ. Every place you work has its advantages and disadvantages, and having to succumb to the established schedule at your company is neither - it is what it is! Same as it has been for the past umpteen years. There are other companies which pay similarly and offer equal time such as HOS, and there are drilling companies which seem to offer the same. You aren’t getting screwed or getting victimized. If its really that big of a deal that you get half days, then picture yourself getting paid from 0600 to 0600 the following day. It would be the same no matter what. The only real solution to anyone’s bitching is to eliminate the day rate and go to an hourly rate, and that I guarantee will be much more of a headache and allow for even more manipulation and possibility of truly getting screwed.
Given the lack of consistency of working offshore the current system works pretty well in my view. It’s much better than having to coordinate and track down your boat for your own cc and have flights taxis rental cars and crew boats come out of your travel pay, which is how it is with some towing companies like Bouchard. It can be a pain, but that’s for you to choose, the same way I did. And when I get tired of it I can move on if I’d like.
As for working more than 12 hours that’s your problem and the the problem of the Master on the vessel which you work. There is that little item in the CFR that says you cannot work more than 12 hours in any 24 hour period. Crew change is not work, its crew change! Using that mentality they should pay you from the minute you leave your front door. In that case I would be “coming back to work” as soon as I got home. I remember a thread on here discussing work hours and travel duration awhile ago and seem to recollect that the only time that counts is the time you are actually signed on the vessel regardless of how grueling your travel day(s) were. The rules are all pretty clear to me and you can take it or leave it. If you’re the Master then you’re on the hook. If you need to be actually working for 12+ hours a day then that’s unfortunately what you have to do and it does suck, but that’s why a master is paid a little more and the company has put him in the position he is in - hopefully. Also that’s why he either doesn’t stand a set watch or he hopefully has another competent captain working opposite him so be doesn’t need to be up for 12+ hours working and covering someone who can’t hold down a watch. There are always exceptions…
In the end, it’s your choice to be sailing and furthermore to work for the company that you do - no one is twisting your arm. If you don’t like it you can either:
1.) quit and find somewhere else to work;
2.) get a lawyer and sue (and probably alienate yourself from getting another job);
3.) buy your own damn boat and go into business for yourself; or
4.) stop complaining about things that aren’t going to change no matter how “great” the company is and start complaining about serious topics, like how shitty the quality of the paper towels are on the boat.