Can any maritime schools actually provide students with all the training and assessments required for AS-D in its entirety?

Maritime Topics Maritime Training & Licensing
23

Start with NVIC 06-14 then move on to NVIC 14-14, then review NVIC 01-26 and finally determine what USCG Approved/Accepted schools have a course that satisfies what you are attempting to do. If you can try and complete STCW assessments during your sea time. By completing the assessment at sea will bring real world experience to the questions found on your potential USCG examinations.

Remember: No one is managing your maritime career but you and no one can manage your maritime career as well as you can.

You need to take charge of where you’re heading. Do your research then ask for an interpretation of information that is not clear. I use the NVICs as they are one of multiple guidance documents that explain the actual requirements found in 46 Code of Federal Regulations and 46 US Code (laws).

Also, note I am not hiding my identity nor is JDCavo.

Hope this helps.

24

I’m certainly hiding my identity, and regardless of if anyone else is hiding it or not hiding it, I’m certainly not about to go off and start name-dropping people and citing them as expert sources of information in real life out in public without their express permission and consent.

I’ve had a couple mariners and/or mariner spouses message me and tell me they are having this same problem regarding AS-D. I don’t know what to tell you. I’m on hitch and I’m in and studying for other mariner classes right now, but AS-D and maybe even AS-E are on the horizon, so I am trying to prepare to negotiate this obstacle and know which instituion(s) to take AS-D with (possibly none can do it fully anymore, but there may he contingencies). Not to mention some of my more experienced peers and coworkers also cannot find anywhere to finish their AS-D. I am not lazy

Finding out that unlike CFRs, NVICs are some flexible nuanced thing that can be interpreted according to the needs of an institution is surprising… but I am happy that at least if nothing else, I walked away from this forum post with that important knowledge

25

Ask the school to show you the Coast Guard requirement on tonnage, or tell you where you can find it. I can’t cite it as it doesn’t exist.

NVICs are not as flexible as you may think. It’s not up to the interpretation by the institution. The Coast Guard decides if an alternative is approriate. See the disclaimer on the bottom of every page of Enclosure (2) to NVIC 14-14. For STCW assessments, schools can use alternatives only if they are approved by the Coast Guard prior to using them. To get approval they need to show that what they propose to do is an equivalent alternative to what’s in the NVIC and results in the same level of competence, knoweledge, understanding, and proficiency.

26

First, jdcavo is a proven source of knowledge and guidance on this site. Has been for YEARS. Forum members know who & what he is and respect his advice, as it is above reproach. So stop. If your maritime school says different than they are probably wrong or confused. Not all schools are great at what they do. What school is it?

“From what I understand, I believe, I’ve heard, I’ve been told, under the impression, google says, etc” I feel like people are giving you advice but you are arguing with the advice given. Stop accepting google as the truth. Use it as guidance and then double check the “facts” it gives you.

I feel like you may be confused on what AS-D is. An AB is a national rating given out by the USCG. STCW AS-D is basically the international version of that AB rating. If you are on a vessel sailing internationally an AB rating from the US isn’t enough. Most countries are not even going to recognize it. That’s where the AS-D comes in and is required.

“a large deep sea american flagged ship unless you have AS-D or AS-E on your MMC (unlimited tonnage)” You’re basically describing a union vessel that sails internationally. Those vessels needing AS-D/AS-E has nothing to do with tonnage. It’s because they are sailing internationally and need those ratings for the manning.

“but I was under the impression large ships that hire people want AS-D in conjunction with national AB-limited or unlimited, and/or national QMED in conjunction with STCW AS-E.” A company can WANT their employees to have whatever they want, it doesn’t mean it is all legally required. If a kayak company wants everyone to have unlimited masters licenses and be a clown school graduate they can. Some companies I worked for wanted every 1st Engineer to have a Chiefs license. Again, large ships are likely to be sailing internationally and are required to have AS-D/AS-E onboard to meet manning requirements as a US AB or QMED rating isn’t enough.

“I know SIU has ‘AB dayworkers’ that don’t have STCW AS-D and are national ABs only (maybe they have STCW RFPNW; they must at mininum have STCW BST).” Are the AB dayworkers sailing internationally? If so, there are probably other people onboard with AS-D that fulfill the manning requirements and those dayworkers are extra and possibly listed as RFPEW or just OS on the manning.

It sucks you can’t get your last few assessments signed off at your current workplace, I get it, but not every school or workplace is gonna have everything. I was in the same boat with my RFPEW. I got a different job and got them signed off there. Worth it.

27

Good thing the company where I worked as a kayak instructor didn’t have that policy. I have one of those but not both.

Or not listed at all, the manning document (COI for US flag) is minimum manning. The day workers are likely in excess of minimum manning. They likely need only meet the same STCW requirements as a day working OS.

28

BlockquoteWhat school is it?

One school told me that they cannot meet new CG NVIC 14-14 requirements and/or the USCG bitched and moaned about something and now they can no longer offee an AS-D course at all, and if they ever can again, they are unlikely to be able to complete all the practical assesments. I’ve only spoken to them, I haven’t gotten it via email in writing. Even if I did, I want to remain anonymous.

Multiple other schools have told me they cannot do all AS-D 14-14 practical assesment sign-offs. I have not pressed them for justification.

BlockquoteI feel like you may be confused on what AS-D is. An AB is a national rating given out by the USCG. STCW AS-D is basically the international version of that AB rating. If you are on a vessel sailing internationally an AB rating from the US isn’t enough. Most countries are not even going to recognize it. That’s where the AS-D comes in and is required.

I know. And by the way, I’m not sure if your understanding of the mechanics of how the bureaucracy functions is actually correct, but yes, the end result is deck workers need AS-D typically to work in the NC and/or oceans zone(s). I am pretty positive I have zero confusion about that. The NMC website made it pretry clear to me, many months ago, that National Able Seafarer (we still call it AB even though technically the name is now gender neutral) is a different thing, separate from STCW AS-D. Although you cannot earn AS-D without also having national AB on your MMC. I don’t think there is any point in discussing this basic tenet, although it could certainly be helpful to other new mariners who are reading, or old mariners who are ignorant of the newer far more ridiculous and complicated barriers and rules.

Blockquote“a large deep sea american flagged ship unless you have AS-D or AS-E on your MMC (unlimited tonnage)” You’re basically describing a union vessel that sails internationally. Those vessels needing AS-D/AS-E has nothing to do with tonnage. It’s because they are sailing internationally and need those ratings for the manning.

I think we just identified something you are wrong about. I’m 80% sure you can find a CFR that says AS-D is only required on NC vessels if the vessel is 201GRT or larger. No idea about AS-E; I don’t have half a clue how QMED and/or AS-D work. I have to read up a lot about the engine department.

BlockquoteAre the AB dayworkers sailing internationally? If so, there are probably other people onboard with AS-D that fulfill the manning requirements and those dayworkers are extra and possibly listed as RFPEW or just OS on the manning

I organically developed this premise and I always suspected it was true; I think STOSs and National ABs with RFPNW can stand watch and do certain things but there are limits and rules; there has to probably be a certain number of AS-Ds on the large tonnage oceans ships and/or there are duties that the AS-Ds have to do that STOSs and AB-nationals (“dayworkers”) cannot do. I have no idea though. 95% of what I have to say on this topic is speculation. My speculation is not very valuable

BlockquoteIt sucks you can’t get your last few assessments signed off at your current workplace,

I have never taken an AS-D class. My employer has a policy allegedly of never doing any sign offs for any practical assesments. I’m not about to start making any noise at my employer. All my more-senior unlicensed peers all have had to do practical assesments at schools, or at prior employers; i know of no one doing practical assesments at my employer. My employer doesnt even use the anchor, ever, and isn’t that a big part of deck practical assesments? I am simply attempting to try to find a school that does AS-D, and I’m not expecting I’m any close to figuring it out, I’m months away and planning ahead

Thanks so much. Again, take anything I say with a grain of salt. I know very little

29

I was not aware of your specific situation in your resent post but I will leave my comments here for you and others.

As mutual respect for you and those who post here I am not inferring you are lazy by any means. I recommend following those willing to tell you where to look for the information you are seeking.

Navigating the multiple opportunities available in the maritime industry is challenging. Especially when confronted with a wide variety of individuals feeding you information. Like me. So here you go.

As you are currently on a hitch and may be standing bridge watches take a look at NVIC 19-14 enclosure 2 and Qualified Assessor Deadline Extension to confirm the licensed mate you are standing bridge watches with meets the Qualified Assessor Requirement for the endorsement you are qualifying for. E.g. have at least 1 year of experience as OICNW on vessels of at least 200 GRT or 500 GT.

Next look at the specific NVIC that relates to the endorsement you are requesting to be signed off see if are on the proper sized vessel and it has the equipment to be assessed. E.g. NVIC 06-14 RFPNW Enclosure 2 provides equipment and performance standards for an assessment.

Now that you have done your personal research, it is time to start a conversation with the mate about the possibilities of signing off the various Navigational Bridge Watch duties assessment requirements found in Enclosures 2 and 3.

Follow the same guidance for NVIC 14-14.

Remember, in general, you are trying to get your bridge and deck duties documented as part of a vessel familiarization process.

Upon leaving the vessel ensure that your sea letter includes a statement regarding standing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or qualified officer. This must be documented somewhere for future license positions.

Hope my guidance helps along with those being posted in this thread.

31

You replied to me but started by quoting stuff someone else said. It reads like your response is for me.

32

Mr Cavo, I apologize my comment was not specific to you but to the thread.

I know that you are familiar to what I was trying to address.

As always I thank you for your input to all the issues presented by the mariners who frequent this forum.

33

I believe the QA requirement is loosened for a few more months… set to revert back to the strict program

I am not on a ship and I am unlikely to get any sign offs from my boat officers unfortunstely, but everyone else should certainly always try

34

"Blockquote“a large deep sea american flagged ship unless you have AS-D or AS-E on your MMC (unlimited tonnage)” You’re basically describing a union vessel that sails internationally. Those vessels needing AS-D/AS-E has nothing to do with tonnage. It’s because they are sailing internationally and need those ratings for the manning.

I think we just identified something you are wrong about. I’m 80% sure you can find a CFR that says AS-D is only required on NC vessels if the vessel is 201GRT or larger. No idea about AS-E; I don’t have half a clue how QMED and/or AS-D work. I have to read up a lot about the engine department."

I’m wrong a lot but you originally said “large deep sea”, near coastal isn’t deep sea(Oceans), so your example about 201GRT can be correct but isn’t what you were originally talking about.

If your company/crew doesn’t help you with the sign offs for the assessments and has an unwritten rule about never doing it then I think you are up shit creek and your company sounds shitty. There may be a course out there that satisfies ALL the NVIC assessments but I highly doubt it. If your senior unlicensed coworkers did it, then ask them where they went.

35

I think I only have one unlicensed coworker who has AS-D, and he is a piney point apprentice graduate

36

A little longer than that. Until December 31, 2028.

37

Sort of. From 46 CFR 15.1101(a)(2)(ii) vessels under 200 GRT are exempt from STCW if they are on near coastal domestic voyages.

38

Thank you for the correction. I appreciate it