Your saying if someone is an OS and they get RFPNW the CG will put STOS on their MMC? I really doubt that. Its a manufactured title to all of my knowledge.
STOS is not a MMC endorsement. All that would be on a MMC for a STOS is RFPNW. On one of the hopper dredges I worked on the COI specified that (2) specially trained ordinary seaman could be substituted for up to a maximum of (2) able seaman. My understanding was that this had been on the COI for years including when it was with a non union company.
Big deal here. It exists, whether or not anyone has it is another storyā¦i AGREE nobody has it. There are nvicās that mention it existing in theory; I think you would just be an OS but the company/cg would make you produce the training i the pdf below to be in compliance. Like you can sail mate on a tug with a licence not <500 tons and a completed toar. Doesnāt need to say it on your license but having the requisite paperwork makes it legal.
Wolf thank you for your insight, you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. All I will say is you may not see union members posting or gloating much on the web, but I will say I have not met very many people myself personally that are not happy with the union setup. if you had a good thing would you want to post it for the world to see there by increasing competition in the halls? If you are a C book life can be hard in the hall, but the b and a books seem to do well. Jobs, jobs, jobs. We have a system and it does work if it is followed and you upgrade as soon as you can. I may not be union for life, I dont know what the future holds, but as a former us marine, with a BS degree in civil engineering(not applicable to our trade, but it shows I have what it takes to work hard and finish things), stcw, mmc, twic, and ZERO sea time it was impossible for me to find that first ride. The union has opened the door for me and it changed the game for many other US seamen. As far as the STOS training goes they get tanker man assist, government vessel training, and the regular OS training like rules of the road. As far as the OP goesā¦ I am not sure why this guy is on gcaptian looking for a tug(job). He just needs to follow the rules and get registered and take what ever damn job opens up (deep sea/ coast wise/ inland/ or the lakes are about open up). Man the f up and stop posting dumb questions on line.
1 Like
[QUOTE=gatorzeroone;101104]Wolf thank you for your insight, you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. All I will say is you may not see union members posting or gloating much on the web, but I will say I have not met very many people myself personally that are not happy with the union setup. if you had a good thing would you want to post it for the world to see there by increasing competition in the halls? If you are a C book life can be hard in the hall, but the b and a books seem to do well. Jobs, jobs, jobs. We have a system and it does work if it is followed and you upgrade as soon as you can. I may not be union for life, I dont know what the future holds, but as a former us marine, with a BS degree in civil engineering(not applicable to our trade, but it shows I have what it takes to work hard and finish things), stcw, mmc, twic, and ZERO sea time it was impossible for me to find that first ride. The union has opened the door for me and it changed the game for many other US seamen. As far as the STOS training goes they get tanker man assist, government vessel training, and the regular OS training like rules of the road. As far as the OP goesā¦ I am not sure why this guy is on gcaptian looking for a tug(job). He just needs to follow the rules and get registered and take what ever damn job opens up (deep sea/ coast wise/ inland/ or the lakes are about open up). Man the f up and stop posting dumb questions on line.[/QUOTE]
Gator. Glad to hear that you made it to Piney Point and like the SIU. Iām sure youāll make the most of it.
Well I didnāt mean to start a war but I appreciate everyoneās insight. I think ill start applying when I have my AB.
[QUOTE=Goirish44;101191]Well I didnāt mean to start a war,[/QUOTE]
Not the war, just a skirmish , half of us will switch sides for the next one.
An STOS is simply an OS that has all his training including RFPNW in school and just needs the sea time to become an AB. It was/is a union/company thing as it does effect COI, as said STOS can take an AB position as a watch stander on a ship with a 6 man deck depātā¦ In one way, it is good so new guys in the deep sea industry can get their training/sea time to become ABs. On the other, it lets the company off the hook (by abt $3g/month) by allowing an AB job to go away to an OS and not just adding OS to the COI. Also, the OS is a watchstander and not out on deck all day to actually learn the trade. Iāve met more ABs since Iāve come back to sea that canāt tie a knot to save their lives.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;101120]Gator. Glad to hear that you made it to Piney Point and like the SIU. Iām sure youāll make the most of it.[/QUOTE] Thanks Tugsailor! itās been a long road. I am finished with first phase and about to ship out. It went well. I was top of class and finished as chief bosun of the student body. I wont say SIU is the best program because I am new and donāt know much, and I am sure there are better schools out there if you want to spend 4 years getting trained to be a mate. I think a year and a half in school at piney point to get into the unlicensed work force and then doing 4 years at sea making money then upgrading to mate makes more since for me. It seems like plenty of people are upgrading at piney point and they all say the work is steady for b books.
Crowley ATBās are all SIU top to bottom. They have Utility positions on the 750ās open much of the time. I would suggest getting your AB/Tankerman ticket as they do rather well financially on the 750 ATBās with an even time 45/45 schedule.
The 750ās are not siu top to bottom. Officers are amo from the blue ridge and coast range
I was on 2 diff OSG oil tankers, and they have the STOS ratingsā¦ Most of the time, they are filled by ABās from the halls that canāt even tie knots rightā¦ I saw the so-called ABās were damn near retards. The bosun (and a REAL bosun, not some BS āchief bosun from PPā comes up to me, as an apprentice and he told me, straight the F-up, I canāt trust the STOSās (both were ABās, did I MENTION that yet???) I have to rely upon YOU to do the really important workā¦ And I got paid like $30 bucks a day.
When we had to steer by hand with an AB on the wheel, the C/M went to get me, from wherever I was, the galley, the E/R, and had ME stand LOOKOUT on the BOW cause the CAPTAIN and the C/M and the BOSUN all knew I could be TRUSTED to call out what was IMPORTANT and let them know what they needed, while the USELESS ABās sailing as STOS were made to do some shit workā¦ The STOSās actually complained, I remember the old man, a real hawespiper from the NMU (remember THAT union?) told them, look, you canāt throw rope, you canāt tie knots, you canāt steer, you canāt even stand look-out, you are useless. The MATES had to do the JOB of the UNLICENSED SIU DECK CREW when docking and undocking, the MATES had to handle the lines, cause the STOSās couldnāt do it. They were going to get themselves or somebody else hurt or killed.
I remember I knew it was bad, when an āA-Book RECERT BOSUNā came on-board and he had to keep asking ME, the F-ing APPRENTICE what to do when we were docking, I was so HAPPY to PAY-OFF before we went back to Alaska with that useless āRECERT bosunā!
[QUOTE=Goirish44;100636]Just graduated the SIU program and im looking for a tug company to work for. Anyone know any good companys to look into on the east coast? I live north of NYC only by about an hour and would commute. Looking for a solid rotation as an STOS. Anyone have any suggestions? Also i plan on getting my AB by the summer and my PIC asap after that.[/QUOTE]
My suggestion: Stay in the SIU program as just having STOS isnāt going to get you a tugboat job. Ship deep-sea. Get ur AB-Special, then ur AB-Limited. Get on an oil tanker if you can, which is pretty easy with OSG as an STOS. Get ur loads/discharges and get your PIC. After about 2 years, you can apply to some tug companies with ur AB-Limited and Tankerman PIC, and some of those are SIU so you can continue ur SIU bennies.
I was on 2 diff OSG oil tankers, and they have the STOS ratingsā¦ Most of the time, they are filled by ABās from the halls that canāt even tie knots rightā¦ I saw the so-called ABās were damn near retards. The bosun (and a REAL bosun, not some BS āchief bosun from PPā comes up to me, as an apprentice and he told me, straight the F-up, I canāt trust the STOSās (both were ABās, did I MENTION that yet???) I have to rely upon YOU to do the really important workā¦ And I got paid like $30 bucks a day.
When we had to steer by hand with an AB on the wheel, the C/M went to get me, from wherever I was, the galley, the E/R, and had ME stand LOOKOUT on the BOW cause the CAPTAIN and the C/M and the BOSUN all knew I could be TRUSTED to call out what was IMPORTANT and let them know what they needed, while the USELESS ABās sailing as STOS were made to do some shit workā¦ The STOSās actually complained, I remember the old man, a real hawespiper from the NMU (remember THAT union?) told them, look, you canāt throw rope, you canāt tie knots, you canāt steer, you canāt even stand look-out, you are useless. The MATES had to do the JOB of the UNLICENSED SIU DECK CREW when docking and undocking, the MATES had to handle the lines, cause the STOSās couldnāt do it. They were going to get themselves or somebody else hurt or killed.
I remember I knew it was bad, when an āA-Book RECERT BOSUNā came on-board and he had to keep asking ME, the F-ing APPRENTICE what to do when we were docking, I was so HAPPY to PAY-OFF before we went back to Alaska with that useless āRECERT bosunā!
[QUOTE=āSaltySailor;101356ā]I was on 2 diff OSG oil tankers, and they have the STOS ratingsā¦ Most of the time, they are filled by ABās from the halls that canāt even tie knots rightā¦ I saw the so-called ABās were damn near retards. The bosun (and a REAL bosun, not some BS āchief bosun from PPā comes up to me, as an apprentice and he told me, straight the F-up, I canāt trust the STOSās (both were ABās, did I MENTION that yet???) I have to rely upon YOU to do the really important workā¦ And I got paid like $30 bucks a day.
When we had to steer by hand with an AB on the wheel, the C/M went to get me, from wherever I was, the galley, the E/R, and had ME stand LOOKOUT on the BOW cause the CAPTAIN and the C/M and the BOSUN all knew I could be TRUSTED to call out what was IMPORTANT and let them know what they needed, while the USELESS ABās sailing as STOS were made to do some shit workā¦ The STOSās actually complained, I remember the old man, a real hawespiper from the NMU (remember THAT union?) told them, look, you canāt throw rope, you canāt tie knots, you canāt steer, you canāt even stand look-out, you are useless. The MATES had to do the JOB of the UNLICENSED SIU DECK CREW when docking and undocking, the MATES had to handle the lines, cause the STOSās couldnāt do it. They were going to get themselves or somebody else hurt or killed.
I remember I knew it was bad, when an āA-Book RECERT BOSUNā came on-board and he had to keep asking ME, the F-ing APPRENTICE what to do when we were docking, I was so HAPPY to PAY-OFF before we went back to Alaska with that useless āRECERT bosunā![/QUOTE]
This story is much more common than it should be. While the exact details are always different it happens often. Iāve lived what you describe here. For some people every day is their first day on a boat.
[QUOTE=Wolfesown47th;101360]This story is much more common than it should be. While the exact details are always different it happens often. Iāve lived what you describe here. For some people every day is their first day on a boat.[/QUOTE]
I actually deleted my post, but added it to my 2nd post on this Thread due to the fact that you quoted me. I am not trying to start a fight between the union/non-union sides on here, as most people already seem to have a strong opinion, one way or the other.
I am just calling it as I saw it, firsthand. Most of the time spent at PP is a joke and useless. 2 weeks for basic firefighting, for the last 3 days, the instructors just play movies, cause the āstudentsā have to stay in the classroom. And even then, after TWO weeks, many of the students FAIL the test!
1st Phase @PP is the 5 day STCW-95 BST, 1 week Lifeboat, and then 1 week, MAYBE 2 weeks worth of info fro what they call Vessel Fam/Vessel Ops. So, the total real training time for all of this should be about 4 weeks, tops. But they manage to make it last 90 days. And they COULD teach SOME real usefull skills during that time, but of course, they donātā¦ Itās more important how you wear those Dickies tan outfits and āmarchā around in some kinda āformationāā¦ A real big help on-board ship.
The apprentices are free labor for the union and the shipping companies, they get an āapprenticeā who has NO union protection whatsoever and they can work you like a dog for 3rd world wages. Somebody really sold the USCG a crock when they approved the UA program for day-for-day seatime for deck, 4 weeks of the so-called 1st Phase is spent working in the galleyā¦ PP doesnāt even have a working ship to train the apprentices on. Wait, they have some tiny-ass boat they claim gives real world exp. Half the folks that go thru the program spend 3 months on the POA in Hawaii, where they learn ZERO seamanshipā¦
Back to the OP, for the reasons named above, PLEASE get out on a ship, get some time in, do the work, learn the trade, learn the craftā¦Donāt follow bad examples. Sure, there are some terrible SIU members sailing, but also some really great guys (and gals) as well. Hope for a good Bosun on ur first, ship, and always be willing to learn, to help out.
[QUOTE=gatorzeroone;101240] It seems like plenty of people are upgrading at piney point and they all say the work is steady for b books.[/QUOTE]
Just pray you donāt get on one of the āGreenā shipsā¦Green Cove, Green Dale etc
Sure, work is steady for a B-Book if you are willing to work on one of those or a grey ship for 6 months in Diegoā¦ Heck, if one is going to work on those, might as well just apply direct to MSC and bypass the SIUā¦ You can also get your B-Book that way, hire on entry-level with MSC, pay ur SIU dues and get a B-Book. I also know guys from Yemen, they never went to PP, and they have family in the SIU, next thing you know, an 18 y/o from Yemen but with a US passport and MMC/TWIC etc is getting flown out to Diego for a six month gig and he hasnāt sat one day in the Hall waitingā¦ While somebody else does 18 months in the āU/A Programā to get the same job.
[QUOTE=crudeman89;101251]The 750ās are not siu top to bottom. Officers are amo from the blue ridge and coast range[/QUOTE]
The officers that came over from the Blue Ridge and Coast Range are indeed AMO. I know this as a former 3rd engineer on the Blue Ridge and former 2nd Engineer on the Legacy. The AMO guys are under an SIU contract due to a pass through agreement with SIU allowing them to work on board. All new hire officers deck and engine for the 750ās are SIU. The 650 class vessels are all SIU. The 550ās are MMP mates and ABās with IBU representing the engineers.
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;101362]I actually deleted my post, but added it to my 2nd post on this Thread due to the fact that you quoted me. I am not trying to start a fight between the union/non-union sides on here, as most people already seem to have a strong opinion, one way or the other.
I am just calling it as I saw it, firsthand. Most of the time spent at PP is a joke and useless. 2 weeks for basic firefighting, for the last 3 days, the instructors just play movies, cause the āstudentsā have to stay in the classroom. And even then, after TWO weeks, many of the students FAIL the test!
1st Phase @PP is the 5 day STCW-95 BST, 1 week Lifeboat, and then 1 week, MAYBE 2 weeks worth of info fro what they call Vessel Fam/Vessel Ops. So, the total real training time for all of this should be about 4 weeks, tops. But they manage to make it last 90 days. And they COULD teach SOME real usefull skills during that time, but of course, they donātā¦ Itās more important how you wear those Dickies tan outfits and āmarchā around in some kinda āformationāā¦ A real big help on-board ship.
The apprentices are free labor for the union and the shipping companies, they get an āapprenticeā who has NO union protection whatsoever and they can work you like a dog for 3rd world wages. Somebody really sold the USCG a crock when they approved the UA program for day-for-day seatime for deck, 4 weeks of the so-called 1st Phase is spent working in the galleyā¦ PP doesnāt even have a working ship to train the apprentices on. Wait, they have some tiny-ass boat they claim gives real world exp. Half the folks that go thru the program spend 3 months on the POA in Hawaii, where they learn ZERO seamanshipā¦
Back to the OP, for the reasons named above, PLEASE get out on a ship, get some time in, do the work, learn the trade, learn the craftā¦Donāt follow bad examples. Sure, there are some terrible SIU members sailing, but also some really great guys (and gals) as well. Hope for a good Bosun on ur first, ship, and always be willing to learn, to help out.[/QUOTE]
No shit, your not telling me nothing I donāt know. But it is not that easy to āget on a shipā my friend. I would conceder myself pretty damn good to go, but I could not get one single company to look at me even with my STCW that I paid my hard earned cash for at MPT. Nothing man not one call back, so you tell me how to get my foot into the door with ZERO sea time? Whatās your big idea? Should I wait 2 years or 3 years for a call back? or do I join a frickin union, learn a trade and get my ratings? If you got a better idea to get one of these non union ships to look at a guy like me; let me know. Donāt just spout off with the same old āgo find a shipāā¦ I tried that crap for almost a year. itās not 1978 anymore. I donāt have time to wait around. SIU came highly recommended from 2 good family friends who wrote me recommendation letters. One is still a member after 15 years and the other is a drillship master (he did PP in 1978). What ever you say though. This marching shit and galley crap is EASY. Its all easy, but what ever Iām just doing my time. I just want to get buys man. I can tie my knots. I may need a little practice throwing lines, but what do you expect. Do some drills with me(the new guy) and I will pick it up and learn. Thats what we do right? I may be an STOS for what 4 months. Then I upgrade to AB specialā¦ then I continue my journey just like every other person. Sure the union has its shit heads and slackers, but who does not have that? Welcome to the real world. I know civil engineers(my old career) from the best schools that canāt add, but so what. That just makes it easier for me to shine. Wish me luck.
[QUOTE=gatorzeroone;101711]No shit, your not telling me nothing I donāt know. But it is not that easy to āget on a shipā my friend. I would conceder myself pretty damn good to go, but I could not get one single company to look at me even with my STCW that I paid my hard earned cash for at MPT. Nothing man not one call back, so you tell me how to get my foot into the door with ZERO sea time? Whatās your big idea? Should I wait 2 years or 3 years for a call back? or do I join a frickin union, learn a trade and get my ratings? If you got a better idea to get one of these non union ships to look at a guy like me; let me know. Donāt just spout off with the same old āgo find a shipāā¦ I tried that crap for almost a year. itās not 1978 anymore. I donāt have time to wait around. SIU came highly recommended from 2 good family friends who wrote me recommendation letters. One is still a member after 15 years and the other is a drillship master (he did PP in 1978). What ever you say though. This marching shit and galley crap is EASY. Its all easy, but what ever Iām just doing my time. I just want to get buys man. I can tie my knots. I may need a little practice throwing lines, but what do you expect. Do some drills with me(the new guy) and I will pick it up and learn. Thats what we do right? I may be an STOS for what 4 months. Then I upgrade to AB specialā¦ then I continue my journey just like every other person. Sure the union has its shit heads and slackers, but who does not have that? Welcome to the real world. I know civil engineers(my old career) from the best schools that canāt add, but so what. That just makes it easier for me to shine. Wish me luck.[/QUOTE]
Are you the OP (ORIGINAL POSTER)??? No. Those comments were aimed at the PP āgradā who wanted to work tugs as an STOS. My advice was to STAY in the SIU and get an AB, same thing you said to the OP.
Re-read what I wrote and you can see what was addressed to you. You talk about how hard it is to ship out entry-level, which is true, if you donāt have any connections.
Your plan to get your AB ticket is solid and nobody is knocking YOU for that. 3 months spent @PP would be better spent throwing rope all day, doing some marlinspike seamanship for the deckies, more E/R training, and even for the galley folks, the 4 weeks spent in the galley is a joke, nobody learns anything except how to chop n dice veggies, and only then if you work the back battery. (I was AMAZED that many of the so-called chief cooks and stews that come in for upgrades are SO terrible, they donāt even give a damn if they serve garbage to the crews), where is the pride in a job well done? And even the CHEFS (Chef Paul, both the Chef Johnās) said it was NO wonder the companies want to cut-down to a 2 man Stew Dept, if they get shit food and shit service from a 3 man SIU Stew Dept,
I never said PP was hard, I said it is STUPID, with nutcases being given cheap-ass plastic badges so they can power trip.
And BTW, GOOD LUCK 
CHIEF BOSUN!
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;101716]Are you the OP (ORIGINAL POSTER)??? No. Those comments were aimed at the PP āgradā who wanted to work tugs as an STOS. My advice was to STAY in the SIU and get an AB, same thing you said to the OP.
Re-read what I wrote and you can see what was addressed to you. You talk about how hard it is to ship out entry-level, which is true, if you donāt have any connections.
Your plan to get your AB ticket is solid and nobody is knocking YOU for that. 3 months spent @PP would be better spent throwing rope all day, doing some marlinspike seamanship for the deckies, more E/R training, and even for the galley folks, the 4 weeks spent in the galley is a joke, nobody learns anything except how to chop n dice veggies, and only then if you work the back battery. (I was AMAZED that many of the so-called chief cooks and stews that come in for upgrades are SO terrible, they donāt even give a damn if they serve garbage to the crews), where is the pride in a job well done? And even the CHEFS (Chef Paul, both the Chef Johnās) said it was NO wonder the companies want to cut-down to a 2 man Stew Dept, if they get shit food and shit service from a 3 man SIU Stew Dept,
I never said PP was hard, I said it is STUPID, with nutcases being given cheap-ass plastic badges so they can power trip.
And BTW, GOOD LUCK CHIEF BOSUN![/QUOTE]
Sounds like you know the ropes. My big point was just that it is a good way to break into the biz. I agree a lot of the stuff is redundant and could be taught in a matter of weeks, but I dont think that is the point. I feel like they want to see if a trainee can handle stress of being away from family and friends and can take constructive criticism (the union does need cheep labor to also run PP for sure, but thats the game). Most of the people that go thru the program have no idea what they are getting into. I would absolutely hate to see 80% of these guys go directly out and sail as an OS/wiper with no trainingā¦thats why I think its hard for people to find that first ship. The companies just dont want to gamble on weather a guy/girl is going to crack up the first time a ship departs. There are a lot of things I dont like about the union, but the opportunities are great for first timers.
As far as the OP goes, like you said, the op has not even finished the program yet. I dont know why he would stop early. Third phase graduation is not really graduation, its just the last time yiou will be in the PP uniform. He sounds confused.
Chief Bosun, lol. Being a former US Marine has its perks. But I am sure it will be a long time before I will see bosun again. Heck if its anything like the PP Bosun job, I will have to think twiceā¦ Managing people sucks half the timeā¦ To many of cry babies. lol.
I should probably delet my post. I think its funny when trainees show up and dont know shit about PP.