ATB, Tankerman PIC-DL

I am wondering if it is possible to get a PIC-DL Tankerman indorcement from your sea time aboard an ATB or if you only qualify for a PIC-DL Barge indorcement, because it is technically a tug and barge.

If its a tug and barge, you should get Tankerman - PIC (Barge).

Isn’t that the whole reason companies have ATB’s, so they don’t have to be Tankers?

The place where you take your tankerman class is all that matters. I have a tankerman PIC(DL) tankship and I’m on traditional tugs doing harbor service in Miami. MPT in Ft.Lauderdale does not even have the barge endorsement class anymore and hasn’t for awhile. Gulf Coast schools may still have seperate courses. The Coast Guard will look at what your tankerman certificate from your school says. My sea time for my PIC was written on tugs under 200 tons, it doesn’t matter if you served aboard ships or not just take your class for PIC tankships and do your firefighting class if you haven’t and have your proof of transfers (5 loads and 5 discharges under a PIC)

I call bullcrap. Sea service most certainly does count.

I took a Tankship Class, and only served on barges, and got PIC (Barge).

One needs 90 days on a Tankship in order to get Tankerman PIC, vs. 60 on a barge.

Here’s the USCG Checklist: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/MCP-FM-NMC5-63%20Tankerman.pdf?list1=checklists%2FMCP-FM-NMC5-63+Tankerman.pdf&B1=GO!

[LEFT][/LEFT]
[RIGHT]<TABLE dir=ltr borderColor=#000000 cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=7 width=498 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=“50%” bgColor=#ffffff height=91><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR><DIR>[B][LEFT]Tankerman-PIC (Barge) [/B][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][SIZE=2]– 60 days service (shore or vessel based) on tank vessels certified to carry DL or LG as appropriate; [/SIZE][/FONT][B]OR [/LEFT]
[/B][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][SIZE=2][LEFT]180 days closely related service directly involved with tank barges. [/LEFT]
</DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR></DIR>[/SIZE][/FONT][B][LEFT]All above require Cargo Transfer Requirements (see below).[/B][/LEFT]
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=“50%” bgColor=#ffffff height=91>[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][SIZE=2]13.303
13.305 [/SIZE][/FONT]
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>[/RIGHT]
Bunker305,
If you did any research, you’d know that you were given the wrong endorsement and should in fact report the error as soon as possible to the NMC.

SEACAPTAIN out

di-dah-di-dah-dit

[I][quote=bunker305;17775]The place where you take your tankerman class is all that matters… [/quote][/I]

This is not correct. See 46 CFR 13.203, you must have service on “tankships or [U]self-propelled[/U] tank vessels” [emphasis added]. For this and other purposes, the ATB is considered a barge.

The above notwithstanding, there are advantages to taking a tank ship course instead of the barge course. The ship course can get you the barge endorsement (but not the converse), and if you get time and transfers on a tank ship you can get the tank ship endorsement without re-taking a course, [I]provided[/I] you get the tank ship time/transfers within five years of the course.

Will work on a tankbarge count for renewal of your PIC tankship, or would you still need tankship offloads for that too? (ie only getting a renewal as a Tankbarge not tankship)

Good question. The regulation on renewals is not as specific as that for the original issue. I don’t know and will ask around for an answer.

FOLLOW-UP: NMC will accept barge transfers for [I][U]renewal[/U][/I] of a (non-barge) Tankerman-PIC endorsement. As I dscussed above, they can’t be used for the orignal issue.

You can not get a tankerman PIC (barge) like the old days!

you need to take a cargo course now!

[B]§ 13.309 Eligibility: Cargo course.[/B]

Each applicant for an original “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement shall present a certificate of completion from a course in DL or LG appropriate for tank barges and for Tankerman-PIC or Tankerman-PIC (Barge), and approved by the Commandant. The date of the certificate may not be more than 5 years earlier than the date of application

You need “real experiance” gone are the days of being on an ATB and getting signed off!

[B]§ 13.303 Eligibility: Experience.[/B]

Each applicant for a “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement for DL or LG shall meet the requirements of either paragraphs (a) and (b) or paragraph © of this section.
(a) Each applicant shall present evidence of—
(1) At least 60 days of service, whether by shore-based or by vessel-based personnel, on one or more tank vessels certified to carry DL or LG appropriate to the endorsement applied for; or
(2) At least 6 months of closely related service directly involved with tank barges appropriate to the endorsement applied for; and
(b) Participation, under the supervision of a “Tankerman-PIC” or “Tankerman-PIC (Barge),” in at least 10 transfers of liquid cargo in bulk of the classification desired on any tank vessel, including at least—
(1) Five loadings and five discharges;
(2) Two commencements of loading and two completions of loading; and
(3) Two commencements of discharge and two completions of discharge.
© Each applicant already holding an MMD or MMC endorsed “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” for DL and seeking an endorsement for LG, or the converse, shall—
(1) Provide evidence of at least half the service required by paragraph (a) of this section; and
(2) Comply with paragraph (b) of this section, except that he or she need provide evidence of only three loadings and three discharges along with evidence of compliance with paragraphs (b)(2) and (3) of this section.
[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; USCG–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009]

You need firefighting and STCW training at a “CG approved” training center!

[B]§ 13.307 Eligibility: Firefighting course.[/B]

Each applicant for a “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement shall present a certificate of successful completion from—
(a) A course in shipboard firefighting, approved by the Commandant and meeting the basic firefighting section of the IMO’s Resolution A.437(XI), “Training of Crews in Firefighting,” completed 5 years or less before the date of application for the endorsement, unless he or she has previously submitted such a certificate for a license, tankerman endorsement on an MMD or MMC, or an officer endorsement on an MMC; or
(b) A course in tank-barge firefighting, approved by the Commandant and meeting §13.121, completed within five years of the date of application for the endorsement.
[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; USCG–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009]

You need many things to be a Tankerman these days!

  1. Money about $3500
  2. alot of time (to spend in training courses)
  3. A TWIC
  4. STCW
  5. A company that will hire a “training tankerman”
  6. An AB endorsement (all barge company’s here on the East coast require it!)
  7. a physical including a fit test for a resperator
  8. A “DOT” drugtest / Benzene test if on a “cleanoil” barge
  9. An MMD

You see the new CG rules have changed the way things are done nowadays!, What you thought was true yesterday is not true today!
I have heard of many tankerman at my company taking the wrong training courses and having to redo them again!
Many tankerman also sent in thier paperwork and had major delays due to DUI and probation and with past due child support!

Those “new” rules you quote came out in 1996.

Yes, but it says revised Mar. 16, 2009…

[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; <ACRONYM title=“United States Coast Guard”>USCG</ACRONYM>–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009]

[quote=Bouchard Captain;18596]Yes, but it says revised Mar. 16, 2009…
[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; <acronym title=“United States Coast Guard”>USCG</acronym>–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009][/quote]

You can check the Federal Register citation for the change noted in the revision history (start here: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/). You’ll find that the 2009 change was the one that created the new MMC and added the requirement for all mariners to have a TWIC. Apart from the TWIC requirement that applies to all licenses and endorsements, it made no substantive changes to the requirements to get a tankerman endorsement.

If you look at the legislative history for any license or endorsement, you’ll find the same March 2009 revision citation.

[[I]edited to change “legislative history” to “revision history” – CFRs are not “legislation”[/I]]

[QUOTE=Bouchard Captain;18559]You can not get a tankerman PIC (barge) like the old days!

you need to take a cargo course now!

[B]§ 13.309 Eligibility: Cargo course.[/B]

Each applicant for an original “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement shall present a certificate of completion from a course in DL or LG appropriate for tank barges and for Tankerman-PIC or Tankerman-PIC (Barge), and approved by the Commandant. The date of the certificate may not be more than 5 years earlier than the date of application

You need “real experiance” gone are the days of being on an ATB and getting signed off!

[B]§ 13.303 Eligibility: Experience.[/B]

Each applicant for a “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement for DL or LG shall meet the requirements of either paragraphs (a) and (b) or paragraph © of this section.
(a) Each applicant shall present evidence of—
(1) At least 60 days of service, whether by shore-based or by vessel-based personnel, on one or more tank vessels certified to carry DL or LG appropriate to the endorsement applied for; or
(2) At least 6 months of closely related service directly involved with tank barges appropriate to the endorsement applied for; and
(b) Participation, under the supervision of a “Tankerman-PIC” or “Tankerman-PIC (Barge),” in at least 10 transfers of liquid cargo in bulk of the classification desired on any tank vessel, including at least—
(1) Five loadings and five discharges;
(2) Two commencements of loading and two completions of loading; and
(3) Two commencements of discharge and two completions of discharge.
© Each applicant already holding an MMD or MMC endorsed “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” for DL and seeking an endorsement for LG, or the converse, shall—
(1) Provide evidence of at least half the service required by paragraph (a) of this section; and
(2) Comply with paragraph (b) of this section, except that he or she need provide evidence of only three loadings and three discharges along with evidence of compliance with paragraphs (b)(2) and (3) of this section.
[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; USCG–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009]

You need firefighting and STCW training at a “CG approved” training center!

[B]§ 13.307 Eligibility: Firefighting course.[/B]

Each applicant for a “Tankerman-PIC (Barge)” endorsement shall present a certificate of successful completion from—
(a) A course in shipboard firefighting, approved by the Commandant and meeting the basic firefighting section of the IMO’s Resolution A.437(XI), “Training of Crews in Firefighting,” completed 5 years or less before the date of application for the endorsement, unless he or she has previously submitted such a certificate for a license, tankerman endorsement on an MMD or MMC, or an officer endorsement on an MMC; or
(b) A course in tank-barge firefighting, approved by the Commandant and meeting §13.121, completed within five years of the date of application for the endorsement.
[CGD 79–116, 60 FR 17142, Apr. 4, 1995, as amended by CGD 79–116, 62 FR 25134, May 8, 1997; USCG–2006–24371, 74 FR 11260, Mar. 16, 2009]

You need many things to be a Tankerman these days!

  1. Money about $3500
  2. alot of time (to spend in training courses)
  3. A TWIC
  4. STCW
  5. A company that will hire a “training tankerman”
  6. An AB endorsement (all barge company’s here on the East coast require it!)
  7. a physical including a fit test for a resperator
  8. A “DOT” drugtest / Benzene test if on a “cleanoil” barge
  9. An MMD

You see the new CG rules have changed the way things are done nowadays!, What you thought was true yesterday is not true today!
I have heard of many tankerman at my company taking the wrong training courses and having to redo them again!
Many tankerman also sent in thier paperwork and had major delays due to DUI and probation and with past due child support![/QUOTE]

What is YWIC,STCW,MMD? was in the U.S. Navy until1988.Had shipboard firefighting,damage control classes. Does that count now?