[QUOTE=Tkoval;184196]I have the same license 1600/6000 master but also 2nd mate. Your going to need a unlimited license to upgrade to unlimited master. The going from 2nd mate to U/M using the OSV loophole is legit but you can’t go from 1600 master to unlimited master your going to have to have a unlimited mate first[/QUOTE]
There is nothing in the CFR that says anyone needs any Unlimited Mate license. Simply 360 days sailing as Chief Mate, which can be done with an OSV 6,000.
an argument can be made that there is no lower level chief mate license so, when 46 CFR 11.404 states one year sea time as chief mate they mean licensed as chief mate, just one way to read it
[QUOTE=caldwell275;184208]an argument can be made that there is no lower level chief mate license so, when 46 CFR 11.404 states one year sea time as chief mate they mean licensed as chief mate, just one way to read it[/QUOTE]
No, that isn’t one way to read it.
First, read the definition of Chief Mate in the CFR.
Second, reread 46 CFR 11.404:
"(1) One year of service as chief mate on ocean self-propelled vessels; or
(2) While holding a license or MMC endorsement as chief mate of ocean self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage, 12 months of service on deck as follows"
they didn’t go through the effort to clearly define chief mate to have it interpreted otherwise
[QUOTE=z-drive;184217]they didn’t go through the effort to clearly define chief mate to have it interpreted otherwise[/QUOTE]
Exactly. They also didn’t specifically say “while holding a license as Chief Mate” in one section but just imply it in another.
So what does this mean for someone who has held the 6000 and 10,000 Master OSV as well as 2nd Mate Unltd? No seatime as Chief Mate. Only as Master. Do I qualify to test and get Master Unltd or must I get Chief Mate first?
[QUOTE=CaptKrunch;184235]So what does this mean for someone who has held the 6000 and 10,000 Master OSV as well as 2nd Mate Unltd? No seatime as Chief Mate. Only as Master. Do I qualify to test and get Master Unltd or must I get Chief Mate first?[/QUOTE]
You cannot get Master Unlimited (or Master OSV Unlimited) without sea time as Chief Mate.
Edit: so you got promoted to Master of the vessel as soon as you got your master license? You never did time as “3rd captain” (Chief Mate)? I find that doubtful…
[QUOTE=CaptKrunch;184235]So what does this mean for someone who has held the 6000 and 10,000 Master OSV as well as 2nd Mate Unltd? No seatime as Chief Mate. Only as Master. Do I qualify to test and get Master Unltd or must I get Chief Mate first?[/QUOTE]
I would hope that the person in that situation would just take the test. Either way, that is the end game. Getting the Master license is a personal achievement for most, and has less to do with a certain job just waiting on them. In 99% of cases, not having command experience on the Master license will land you a Chief Mate position at best anyway.
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You must get your company to write a specific letter stating you were sailing for a year in the capacity of second in command or chief mate. In OSV terms this is 3rd captain or OICNW of a watch. If your sailing as master of the boat then I don’t see why you wouldn’t qualify to go from 2nd mate to master unlimited. Of course you’ll need to test, complete assessments and take courses if sea service started after March 2014
I sailed as Mate on vessel over 3000tons to get the endorsement. I then went to a vessel under 3000tons and acquired Master with 6000ton endorsement. I then went on to be relief captain of a large OSV for a year and now three years as Master on another.
I have the command experience and am in no way opposed to either route. For obvious reason I would want to go the most efficient method possible. Thank you for your reply.
That is what I was thinking as well. Not so sure that the seatime I spent acquiring the endorsement qualifies as Chief Mate. I could be wrong. Either way, as soon as I get the assessments completed I will apply for Master Unltd and see if they approve. The worst case scenario that I see right now is that I advance to Chief Mate on my 2nd Mate.
Right They’ll approve you test from 2nd mate to Chief mate/master unlimited a 9 section test which I’m sure know
[QUOTE=Tkoval;184266]If your sailing as master of the boat then I don’t see why you wouldn’t qualify to go from 2nd mate to master unlimited.[/QUOTE]
Because the CFR specifically says you need time as Chief Mate, so time as master doesn’t count.
[QUOTE=CaptKrunch;184271]I have the command experience and am in no way opposed to either route. For obvious reason I would want to go the most efficient method possible. Thank you for your reply.[/QUOTE]
I was not referring to command experience on a OSV restricted license. I was stating in terms of a Master unlimited, if there was any intention on using it (in an unlimited manner meaning any sector in the industry), chances are you will not get that particular job without having served on that particular license. Like you have done, and we all have done, proving yourself at a lower level before advancing to the next step is a little higher in the pecking order than what is stated in the MMC. Now in terms of just to get the Master license as a personal achievement with no intention to move anywhere, staying in the same sector, and just the upgrade alone within the confines of an OSV (which is possible - been there - also I was the first to get a large OSV license in '98), the most efficient route is to study your ass off - period. Either way, there is a test at the management level.
My advice:
Study your ass off (there is a test, reemphasized).
Apply for Chief Mate unlimited, then go pass the test once approved to test.
Once the test is passed, call the evaluator, and state that you believe you should be issued a Master license due to the information submitted. This is a very short conversation to be had. Chances are, the Chief Mate will be issued and you will get it that much earlier for the sea-time clock to start.
Long way around:
Apply for Master, I do not see that being approved, but I will go along with the crowd for now.
If the Master is not approved, then your application is stuck in evaluation and an extended conversation/reconsideration process, yada, yada, possible denial.
If the Master is approved, good for you, but this was not ever certain to begin with and very doubtful, but by taking my advice, you would have been in the testing room with 100% chance versus 99/01.
In the end, the conversation can take place on the back end without inhibiting the test taking (as mentioned, that is the end game). Actually, you should be able to pass the test now if clearly motivated.
Hopefully, recently you got enough sea-time on the 2nd Mate to just now qualify for Chief Mate. If you have been sitting on the 2nd for a while, the one year saved by skipping Chief Mate is barely worth the conversation.
[QUOTE=CaptKrunch;184235]So what does this mean for someone who has held the 6000 and 10,000 Master OSV as well as 2nd Mate Unltd? No seatime as Chief Mate. Only as Master. Do I qualify to test and get Master Unltd or must I get Chief Mate first?[/QUOTE]
Chief Mate
[QUOTE=Tkoval;184266]You must get your company to write a specific letter stating you were sailing for a year in the capacity of second in command or chief mate.[I][B] In OSV terms this is 3rd captain or OICNW of a watch.[/B][/I] If your sailing as master of the boat then I don’t see why you wouldn’t qualify to go from 2nd mate to master unlimited. Of course you’ll need to test, complete assessments and take courses if sea service started after March 2014[/QUOTE]
Since this conversation is about an unlimited license, that is absolutely NOT what it means. Get rid of this “OSV terms” BS.
You are either the designated C/M (as per a a COI requiring one), or you are second in command (equating to C/M) while on board as either designated by the Master or the company and able to show proof with a USCG discharge or one of those stupid sea service letters vouching for your position.
It is not just the 3rd, 4th, 5th or whatever Captain OR OICNW. It is only person on board at a time.
There’s already enough douchebags trying every possible scheme they can to upgrade. Don’t start putting ideas in their heads that ends up with 2-4 guys all getting ‘C/M’ time off an OSV while they were onboard together at the same time just because they were a “captain” or standing a bridge watch. The fucking offices sure as shit don’t know any better. Once again, all the more reason for OSV Master’s to use 718A.
Nobody who gives a damn about their license and how they got it or how they upgraded should be turning a blind eye to multiple people getting C/M or 1A/E equivalent time concurrently on the same vessel, let alone somebody being given such time and not acting in that capacity.
There are entirely too many (their own misguided decisions) who come to this forum as some holy temple looking for answers on how to upgrade and the BS and incorrect answers that get posted end up spreading like wildfire, giving birth to more and more ideas of how and why someone is able to get this or that upgrade or endorsement.
I wish they would revive limited C/M licenses from the 80s as well as make all OSVs have at least 3 LDOS (as per COI), designating one as C/M, and end this nonsense.
I agree with you and appreciate your advice. Thank you for the reply. I believe that is exactly what I will do.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;184294]It is not just the 3rd, 4th, 5th or whatever Captain OR OICNW. It is only person on board at a time.[/QUOTE]
While he was in error claiming OICNW, technically “3rd captain” is the second in command and thus the Chief Mate. I was always listed in the log as such when I was running as “3rd captain”.