Apperently I went to far in calling out a Headhunter the other day

The other day we had a head hunter post about how his company was hiring titles “MRC Is Hiring” If you read his post if just stated that his company was looking for Mariners. There was nothing given to exactly what type and what sector of the industry it was for. I go to the website because the bells where going off in my head. As soon as the web page popped up I saw it was for a head hunter and found their sign up page and downloaded their form. In it is a contract agreeing to give them 20% of your pay over 60 days. It was time to call this man out and let others know exactly what I think of people like him. Unfortunately I might have gone a little too far in the tongue lashing and letting him know what I really think of him and people like him. I also believe if you are looking to hire a mariner you should pay John and Mike for an ad in their jobs section of the web site. They work long and hard to give us this resource and should be compensated for it.
Coming to the message boards and posting a help wanted post for free in a section designed for Mariners to share tips and leads just comes off as uncouth and cheap.

Below is a message I got from him trying to get on my good side and convince me that he’s one of the good guys. Instead I’m posting here in the public forum with my rebuttal so that others may participate and maybe garner a public response from Marcus.

I received your reply to my post, and I just wanted to let you know that you are confusing me for the multitude of hacks that are in the placement business. Since it seems we’ve gotten off on the wrong foot, give me a chance to explain:

Mmmm, no I’m not. You charge the mariner for the job. End of story. This is the only industry where it has become acceptable for the employee to pay the head hunters fee. Head hunters exist in all professions from IT, Doctors, Engineers, Business Executive, etc. etc. but in all of the above cases the company pays the fee not the Employer.

We are working with Hornbeck, Surf Subsea, GulfMark, Harley Marine Services, Fugro, MMS, etc… not exactly fly-by-night companies in the quoted e-mail below.

Thanks for giving us a list of companies that help you break the law. Explains why I never can get a meeting with someone from Gulfmark even after filling out their online application where I meet all of their requirements and stopping by their office. I can see how this could happen at HOS as when I interviewed with HOS I first meet with a recruiter and then was quickly handed off to somebody in HR who really made the decision if I was to be hired, by the way I turned the job down because I saw that the company and I were not a good fit. I am sure the recruiter has a quota to fill or there is a nice bonus for filling a particular position due to the demanding requirements. So the net gets cast far and wide by the recruiter and any method to fill the spot is acceptable in their eyes. Especially when an envelope filled with pictures of Benjamin Franklin in green ink appears on their desk.

None of the above might be fly by night operations but none of them are on my top list of companies I am dieing to work for.

Also, we primarily work with experienced mariners. I personally have zero use for a new guy. Also, our contract is simple and straightforward, and non-obligating unless the mariner so chooses. Also, I don’t believe the Captains that we get 1250/day are broke.

No real comment. Glad that guys are making great money.

The reason our contract is spread out over 60 days is a show of faith and insurance to the Mariner. If a guy goes to a job and get hurt, quits, fired, or just doesn’t like it, there is no sense in a paying a huge fee up front.

What does this have to do with the fact that you are screwing over hard working people! Again why do you not make the Employer pay your fee? Why not have the company pay you over the course of 60 days equal to Employees 20% pay? Using the above Captains day rate of $1250 I’m going to make an assumption that He is unlimited license and the boat he is on is making over $50,000 a day. Now who does you fee, which by the way is $15,000, place a bigger burden on? The Mariner or the Company? Even if they guy is only getting $500 a day and the boat is on a sub $10,000 day job it is still a greater burden, even more so as more often than not they are the predominant if not the only wage earner of the household, then on the company who also has several other boats making money that helps spread the burden around.

I realize that there are quit a few agencies out there getting crappy day rates for terrible contract jobs. We are finding jobs that are permanent, with benefits, and retirement.

And unicorns are real…. You might try and convince yourself of that, but you are still a member by association.

Believe me, a good Naval Architect is hard to find and harder to bullshit. That’s not me.

Why you bring up Naval Architects but they must be some stupid or lazy Naval Architects out there. A quick Google search pulls up hundreds of listing directly from employers at well known job sites. Wonder if the company hiring charges their new employer for the money they spent looking to find their new employee? From the looks of it, yes a Naval Architect is hard to find, especially for guys like you with your hand in their pocket verses a respectable Headhunter that charges the employer.
Are saying they are harder to bullshit is implying that because they have a formal education that they are smarter than us poor mariners? Implying that if they are paying your fee why shouldn’t we? This also just goes to show us what you think of mariners and how much interaction you have had with us. Due to the nature of our profession we shovel a lot of crap from every which way so any Mariner worth anything has a highly attuned bullshit detector and mine went off the second I clicked on your original thread.

Like every other industry that places executives there are plenty of hacks. But, for someone who does not want to do the work on their own, or utilize our connections, we do our best to get exactly the permanent job they wish, day rate, benefits, rotation or whatever it may be without them lifting a finger. Most frequently, we find a better situation for a mariner according to the specs he or she provides. I don’t lie, and I have references for quality people.

Well good for you, you do what every other head hunter in the world say they do. Still explain to me why you find it acceptable to charge the employee verses the worldwide standard of charging the Employer.

We also do consulting for USCG Law and other issues.

Apparently you forget to mention this one to those that you are working for.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title46/html/USCODE-2011-title46-subtitleII-partG-chap105-sec10505.htm
[B]46 U.S.C. [/B]
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 46 - SHIPPING
Subtitle II - Vessels and Seamen
Part G - Merchant Seamen Protection and Relief
CHAPTER 105 - COASTWISE VOYAGES
Sec. 10505 - Advances
From the U.S. Government Printing Office, www.gpo.gov

§10505. Advances(a)(1) A person may not—
(A) pay a seaman wages in advance of the time when the seaman has earned the wages;
(B) pay advance wages of the seaman to another person; or
© make to another person an order, note, or other evidence of indebtedness of the wages, or pay another person, for the engagement of seamen when payment is deducted or to be deducted from the seaman’s wage.

(2) A person violating this subsection is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000. A payment made in violation of this subsection does not relieve the vessel or the master from the duty to pay all wages after they have been earned.
(b) A person demanding or receiving from a seaman or an individual seeking employment as a seaman, remuneration for providing the seaman or individual with employment, is liable to the Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000.
© The owner, charterer, managing operator, agent, or master of a vessel seeking clearance from a port of the United States shall present the agreement required by section 10502 of this title at the office of clearance. Clearance may be granted to a vessel only if this section has been complied with.
(d) This section does not apply to a fishing or whaling vessel or a yacht.
(Pub. L. 98–89, Aug. 26, 1983, 97 Stat. 571; Pub. L. 99–640, §10(b)(4), Nov. 10, 1986, 100 Stat. 3550; Pub. L. 103–206, title IV, §414, Dec. 20, 1993, 107 Stat. 2437.)

So explain how you get around that one?

So, what I’d like to say is if I offended you, or came off wrong I apologize. I, nor the company I work for, likes to be slandered in a public forum. gcaptain has policies in place to permanently prevent things like this happening in a public forum. But, I don’t want us to be on opposite sides of the field. I want you to see that I am not what, perhaps, you thought I was. I appreciate your time.

Marcus

The original thread was deleted because I used too many bad words and ran afoul of the new rules in place by the websites owners. Not to protect you from being called out. I might have been extremely harsh in my original post but not slanderous. You are breaking the law per USC title 46 seciton §10505. advances, by charging a Seaman for your services. It’s a well known fact that HR guys have been known to take kickbacks from those like yourself for using your services. Even if you do not practice in the above you are still guilty by association and clearly have knowledge of those that do. Just to be clear there are headhunter agencies out there for mariners that do not charge mariners. The following is a list of those companies that do charge the Mariner for a job.
http://www.maritimeemployment.com/index.asp
http://www.c-mar.com/
http://clogistical.com/

Now if you go by there websites you will see very few to no marine jobs listed. That is because the only time a company will hire outside help to find employees is when they can not fill them them selves. Every company has a constant line of people waiting for an interview and a huge pile of applications to look through to find somebody when they need it. Or they use a guy like Marcus when they them selves are too lazy to do their actually job and get on the phone and screen people, and I have just as much contempt for companies that use guys like Marcus’s services as I do men like Marcus. I’m sure that envelope with a few $100’s in it doesn’t hurt either.

Sounds like a scam to me. I don’t believe, and won’t believe that companies in the Gulf need head hunters to fill positions. I know for a fact companies like HOS, Chouest, Harvey and others get 100s of applications a day. I’m sure even the small companies have a good stack to pick from. Scammers! I bet it’s more of a bait and switch deal, “Oh well it’s not the Gulf, but it’s a job that pays!”

I am disappointed that the earlier thread was deleted. I have a fear that our good moderators are going to take this P.C. Stuff too far.

Kudos for busting a headhunters balls on here. I have worked for a fly by night company and have seen first hand the dirty underhanded deals that the company and the " crewing agency" are involved in.

We recently had a seaman aboard for a temporary 30 day job. A headhunter named Marcus told him it was a permanent job. The guy ended up paying Marcus 14 days wages for a 30 day job. The guy did get a 30 day extension but that had nothing to do with Marcus. Is there more than one pay headhunter named Marcus

My advice. Do not pay headhunters. Or at least find one who is not named Marcus

Modern day crimps.

I thought they faded into history with the square riggers.

Did you ask John or Mickey what exactly got your post deleted?

[QUOTE=coldduck;114905]Did you ask John or Mickey what exactly got your post deleted?[/QUOTE]

Your question tells me you didn’t read the referenced post. While I was by no means offended by the tongue lashing administered there, I knew as I was reading it that it would soon be deleted. Let’s just say it was ‘colorful’.

Great post. Hiring an agent to find the best job for you sure has potential big money benefits for a mariner… Especially a busy, out of communication reach type mariner or one not savvy with the people and self promotion skills… BUT it is a tough pill to swallow for the industry… And according to this post it is illegal!!!

Employers hate recruiters too. My friend is a software engineering recruiter providing nerdy code writing Momma’s basement dwelling computer geeks to that industry. He makes $300,000/year placing these guys into $100,000/year jobs. Interesting job. A lot of psychiatry and persuasion. The engineers have odd requests… Like wanting a desk that faces a certain direction, or a personal Red Bull frig, or 20 feet between them and another human, or certain wall colors, or particular music playing, or time off for certain Sci Fi new episode showings, Subway sandwich allowance, limits on how long or often management can speak or look at them…

Recruiters calm the frightened computer engineers. Convince them that the CIA and FBI are not living in the walls tracking their every move planning to drain their brain of all gel matter before the upcoming intergalactic war.

But like said before, the employers pay the % of salary recruitment fees. Not the employees. On the other hand, I know many people who pay thousands to attend conventions and social events to promote themselves to “build their professional network” in hopes of gaining an advantage in getting a better paying job in their industry.

If this is illegal… Then Marcus will be shut down… If not, then he is a little like a union in that he charges you “dues” and skims cash out of you for being your advocate in getting you your job and negotiating its wages and benefits for you. Not that the relationship is as complex and long as a union.

And another thing, EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE … 20% of 60 days is a salesmen’s offer. Counter if it seems high. My software engineering recruiter friend has certain provisions in his contract to protect the employer: for example: if the computer nerd has a nervous breakdown or quits the job to attend a cartoon conference in Vegas within one year of the placement, the recruiter has to pay the employer back half of the fee. So in this maritime industry where the employee pays the fee the recruiter would have to pay to mariner back half the fee if the job disappears or the employee is let go for any reason aside from negligence for the first year.

First I meant Mikey not Mickey. And second I did read the post and colorful language has been tolerated for many years on here. I didn’t believe myself that it was a personal attack just an attack on that line of business in general. He also brought up that Marcus shouldn’t be on here trying to drum up business without paying the site as an advertiser.

I can’t believe I completely missed that thread when it was still up, but I am busy at home with only 5 days off at the moment but suffice to say that these crimps such as MRC are illegal in Louisiana of all places so you see them with offices in Texas, Mississippi and Alabama. Only a very lazy or stoopid mariner will pay for his job. It truly is worse that the very bad old sailing ship days, because then the shipmaster paid a crimp to furnish seamen to a undermanned ship just before sailing. Granted that many such men didn’t go voluntarily and woke with a splitting headache with a ship already at sea. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE VERMIN IS A SCUM EATING SLUG AND NEEDS TO HAVE SALT POURED UPON THEM!

So good on ya Jemplayer…the c.captain approves your initiative, invective and vitriol. I applaud your actions and words heartily! Well done!

[QUOTE=coldduck;114890]I am disappointed that the earlier thread was deleted. I have a fear that our good moderators are going to take this P.C. Stuff too far.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps a political correct view would be that a prohibition on crude language and personal attacks is discriminatory towards lower socioeconomic classes in that it takes away the only tool they have to express anger or frustration (through no fault of their own of course). The better educated higher socioeconomic classes on the other hand are able to use their superior writing skills to insult others without resorting to crude sexual language or direct personal attacks.

I’m not making this argument myself as I don’t think the bar has been set too high it just seems to me the political correctness argument could be used either way. Practically speaking the term is meaningless in this context.