Just moving forward my man.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;150104]Exactly what is needed. One union for officers like “The Guild” in Canada. For years the maritime unions have been underbidding each other in a race to the bottom for the mariner — for the enrichment of union “leadership.”
If it is true that the MMP only has 150 rotary jobs, its just a tiny, irrelevant, deadman walking.
I agree that the primary purpose of AMO is kill off MMP and MEBA at the expense of mariners while making a tidy profit for union leadership. If MMP only has 150 rotary jobs, it appears that AMO has nearly succeeded in killing off MMP.[/QUOTE]
Don’t count MMP out. Patriot successfully underbid AMO companies on the LMSRs
[QUOTE=RichM;150095]I knew this would ruffle feathers.
One union, one contract.
Say it loud!!
One union ,one contract!![/QUOTE]
HALLEJULAH and AMEN brother
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;150107]Don’t count MMP out. Patriot successfully underbid AMO companies on the LMSRs[/QUOTE]
and i believe the 2/M on the new contract is now making less than the 3/M on the old contract. how is that good for the mariner?
[QUOTE=tugsailor;150104]Exactly what is needed. One union for officers like “The Guild” in Canada. For years the maritime unions have been underbidding each other in a race to the bottom for the mariner — for the enrichment of union “leadership.”
If it is true that the MMP only has 150 rotary jobs, its just a tiny, irrelevant, deadman walking.
I agree that the primary purpose of AMO is kill off MMP and MEBA at the expense of mariners while making a tidy profit for union leadership. If MMP only has 150 rotary jobs, it appears that AMO has nearly succeeded in killing off MMP.[/QUOTE]
and do you for some strange reason think that AMO also hasn’t seen its contracted fleet shrink over last 20 yrs just like MMPs? And I’m NOT including the ebb and flood of 5 yr MSC contracts…
Yes, clearly, the Canadian “Guild” is clearly organized, respected by the gov’t, and powerful…that’s why they are battling this…
By MarEx September 04, 2014
The Canadian Maritime and Supply Chain Coalition held a press conference explaining their significant worries concerning the Canadian-European Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) and the lack of transparency that our government has had when making this deal.
This free trade agreement will allow EU beneficially owned Flag of Convenience (FOC) vessels and so-called European National Flag to trade freely between Canadian ports without any restrictions on origin of the crew, or level of wage and working conditions. What we can be sure about is that this agreement will completely halt the Canadian maritime transport sector’s growth. Moreover, the communities and regions that depend on this industry will be destroyed. Once this agreement is in place, it will not take long before the rest of the Canadian transportation sectors are affected, including, air, road and rail.
“This agreement will have a severe negative impact on the Canadian Maritime Industry by opening domestic trade to foreign carriers, doing away with our Cabotage Laws,” said James Given, President, S.I.U. of Canada and Chair, Canadian Maritime and Supply Chain Coalition. “This is the most serious threat that we have ever faced in our industry.”
Points to consider:
>With no consultation process whatsoever, the government of Canada has unilaterally taken the decision to destroy the Canadian Shipping Industry with a trade agreement that will throw thousands of dedicated men and women out of work.
>Is Canada not a developed nation?
>How can we stand for FOC vessels to trade within Canadian domestic markets and not follow our most simple social standards?
>Are we ready to go backwards and promote unregulated shipping?
>What’s more, are we willing to allow FOC vessel’s, with no local knowledge, to freely sail within the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Great Lakes, and the coastal waters’ fragile ecosystem?
The Canadian Maritime and Supply Chain Coalition is working diligently with representatives from various transportation unions from around the globe to ensure that CETA is in no way successful in destroying the Canadian marine transportation industry and the logistics that will follow.
About the Canadian Maritime and Supply Chain Coalition: This coalition was formed in response to the detrimental effects that Canadian-European Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) will have on the Canadian maritime industry and the rest of the logistic chain. This coalition includes leaders from the following Unions from Canada and around the globe: UNIFOR, International Longshoremen’s Association, International Longshore and Warehouse Union, Alliance du St-Laurent, Canadian Union of Public Employees- Dockers, United Steelworkers, Canadian Labour Congress, Teamsters Canada, International Transport Workers’ Federation, European Transport Workers’ Federation, BC Ferry and Marine Workers Union, International Association of Machinists, Maritime Union of Australia, AFL- CIO Maritime Trades Department.
Source: Seafarers’ International Union of Canada
posted by CC himself.
[QUOTE=Third Coast;150109]and i believe the 2/M on the new contract is now making less than the 3/M on the old contract. how is that good for the mariner?[/QUOTE]
I didn’t say it was good for the mariner. It is good for Joe Boss at Mickey Mouse & Pluto. It keeps the mariner stuck in a low paying job and keeps money in Joe Boss’s pocket.
roger idk where i got crossed. if a friends numbers were correct from mmp, the 2/M will be making about $2500 less a month on the patriot contract than the 3/M was on the OSI contract. pathetic.
[QUOTE=Third Coast;150118]roger idk where i got crossed. if a friends numbers were correct from mmp, the 2/M will be making about $2500 less a month on the patriot contract than the 3/M was on the OSI contract. pathetic.[/QUOTE]
So who is lowballing who now?
It sounds like MMP is lowballing itself, but I suspect the real reason to keep the jobs from going to AMO.
AMO and MMP appear to be locked into a death spiral of underbidding each other for contracts, with both unions ending up losing jobs and members, and headed for extinction.
The worst thing, from my perspective, is that the lowballing unions are having a ripple effect that is suppressing non union wages.
I’d like to see all the officer’s unions merge, and return to their traditional role of leading wages higher for all mariners.
Heard a ro/ro is being reflagged foreign in a few months. Any dirt on that situation?
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;150111]Yes, clearly, the Canadian “Guild” is clearly organized, respected by the gov’t, and powerful…that’s why they are battling this…[/QUOTE]
and there is also Nautilus International (formerly NUMAST) to emulate as a model…
[QUOTE=tugsailor;150146]It sounds like MMP is lowballing itself, but I suspect the real reason to keep the jobs from going to AMO.
AMO and MMP appear to be locked into a death spiral of underbidding each other for contracts, with both unions ending up losing jobs and members, and headed for extinction.
The worst thing, from my perspective, is that the lowballing unions are having a ripple effect that is suppressing non union wages.
I’d like to see all the officer’s unions merge, and return to their traditional role of leading wages higher for all mariners.[/QUOTE]
The officer’s unions will not merge. There has been too much hate, jealousy and mistrust over the years for it to happen. There has been a ton right here on this forum. Read some of the old threads. Not mention merging the pension plans would never work.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;150144]So who is lowballing who now?[/QUOTE]
The MOU’s submitted for Watson class by Patriot and OSI carried the exact same wage scale. Only MMP and MEBA have a retirement plan that is real…for now.
It is important for everyone that works or cares about contract mariners to realize the MOU’s union leadership accepts and signs during the bidding process is what we should care about. Fuck the company and how they bid a contract. If you think the company gives shit about you, you probably lack the basic understanding of who a labor union is supposed to serve. I care about wages and benefits. I would be all for ONE UNION OF AMERICAN OFFICERS. It is one huge task but we would need some serious people to take action.
A real “merger” of the Officer unions is the only way we could ever hope to secure deep sea jobs with decent wages and actual power during contract negotiations.
Does AMO even have group status for it’s members? Why would you not want this when it came to bidding jobs? That is if the rumors I hear about this are true?
Also I hope with the new AMO leadership the cartoons that make your union look stupid stop. Gov contracts go 5 years and then they go to someone else. The jobs on the Gov ships dont belong to anyone, they are 5 year rotary jobs that turnover. That is just the way it is. AMO sailors are just the same as all the other officers out there. Someone told me once that there is a small percent of exceptional sailors and an small amount of really shitty ones with everyone else in between somewhere.
I do not mean to talk poorly about any particular union and I am sorry if that’s the way I come across. The ships will run and everyone is replaceable, but I cant stress enough how inportant it is for members in all the unions to be active. If you are on this forum and a union member you are probably one of the small percentage of members who voted in your last election ans actually care about your future.
Where was I ???
And it’s the American wages/benefits that eat up all the profit? Really?
[QUOTE=Skiing Salem Sailor;150211]. If you are on this forum and a union member you are probably one of the small percentage of members who voted in your last election ans actually care about your future.
Where was I ???[/QUOTE]
This forum is overwhelming anti-AMO. I won’t say who leads the way here but he posts pretty much all day every day. He might even respond to this post. Most people don’t want to listen to the rants of someone who has nothing else do to but post his curse filled hatred of all things AMO. This forum is not exactly what I would call a good source of information. I can’t imagine there are much more than 30 or so AMO members who actively read this forum. The main Gcaptain page well that is a whole different story. It actually is a good source of information. I would think more people would look there if they cared about their future.
hardly overwhelming…lately with the election of Doell and Murdock. it seems to be much more positive in tone albeit with caution
I won’t say who leads the way here but he posts pretty much all day every day. He might even respond to this post.
“leads the way”? by that you must mean there is a leader in this forum but whom do you refer to?
Most people don’t want to listen to the rants of someone who has nothing else do to but post his curse filled hatred of all things AMO.
hardly one person…many people here speak negatively against the AMO…most are ex AMO mariners who do. Not sorry your precious fanny is not insulated from the vicious onslaught
This forum is not exactly what I would call a good source of information.
so says you…I believe the vast majority here believe this forum is the single best source of information about the US maritime industry that exists…of course, you are bothered that information isn’t favorable to your beloved union but you are free at anytime to rebut anything that is stated negatively towards the AMO. This forum is free and open to all members to participate in equally. You just have to be able to defend your claims which is easy to do if you are on the right side of the issues but impossible to do if all you’re doing is blowing smoke. If that’s what you try, then you must be prepared to defend yourself against pointed sticks…
I can’t imagine there are much more than 30 or so AMO members who actively read this forum.
then all the rest are stoopid
The main Gcaptain page well that is a whole different story. It actually is a good source of information. I would think more people would look there if they cared about their future.
please back up that statement with specific examples
in the meantime while we await your reply, I think I will have a nice lie down because I grow weary of you Cartman…
The unions and the non union sector both have an important role to play. The unions like to say that non union mariners benefit from the standard of wages and benefits that the unions negotiate. 30 years ago that was true. Today its just the opposite. The unions leaders lowball each other competing for the opportunity to be the puppets of the employers and drag the non union sector down with them.
I would like to see the unions do well and have about half the jobs, leaving the rest to non union. However, they cannot do well unless they stop underbidding each other. There are really only two ways to stop this insanity: (1) merge; or (2) agree to set the same standard wage and benefit levels for similar types of jobs. Not every type of ship should pay the same rate because they have different cost structures and day rates. For example, a new Jones Act tanker commands a high day rate, and so should its officers.
[QUOTE=c.captain;150218], I think I will have a nice lie down because I grow weary of you Cartman…[/QUOTE]
If you look around, there are many who are weary of you…
I am sorry if I insulted the great and all-knowing c.captain as he is an expert in everything.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;150220]If you look around, there are many who are weary of you…
I am sorry if I insulted the great and all-knowing c.captain as he is an expert in everything.[/QUOTE]
I apologize, you aren’t Eric Cartman…you’re really Kent Dorfman
Fat, drunk and stoopid is no way to go through life son…but somehow you have managed to perfect the art