Why didn’t MEBA crew atleast a couple top to bottom? Would have been a good way to get mates from MMP to join.
Clearly MEBA doesn’t need nor want any MMP mates to join them to help crew ‘their’ new ships. And yet there are multiple MMP A book Capts on LIBERTY ROROs, still numerous MEBA pass thru Capts on FOS LMSRs, a hodge podge of both MEBA/MMP senior deck officers on the Express ships, etc., and random other NON MEBA passthru LDOs in assorted LDO billets on MMP ships. This whole thing sucks. I’d like to think we needed each other to some extent, but guess I was wrong. There’s a whole lot of misinformation out there on how MMP / MEBA got to this point, but it didn’t just arrive overnight. As stated before, nobody wants to hear any more about the 1984ish tanker strike, but don’t forget about MEBA going after all officer jobs on the MATSON CV 2500/2600s. That didn’t help our strained relationship.
Bear in mind… AFL CIO article 20 hearing is this coming week. We’ll see in a month or so what they say, then what SIU’s response is (AMO beholden to them). Just have to see how this whole Osprey Ship Mgmt link to APL/AML works out in AFL CIOs eyes…
But like somebody earlier said, this whole thing pitting labor against labor is only good for the company. Anybody who thinks GD at APL can be trusted at his word is foolishly naive or incapable of thinking about what’s around the corner. And if you don’t know who GD is, better do your homework… MEBA and AMO.
Regarding JOHNNY.DOLLARs post about applicants starving in MMP hall as refuted by SHOOTER MCGAVIN….,Agreed, I’ve have had no problems at all shipping OTB for last 25 yrs with MMP. If you choose not to go take classes, not track jobs online MMP portal which has existed for at least 20 years (which is something MEBA still has not allowed its members to have access to), don’t look at shipping websites for vessel schedules, don’t look at terminal websites for vessel arrivals, AND don’t go to hall other than at job call +- 5 minutes…. Then I suppose it’s tough for the lazy and unmotivated. STARVATION, laughable. The last nearly 10 years at MMP offshore have been a veritable fucking cornucopia of jobs, not even including MARAD breakouts, for all LDO levels. And the last 5 yrs have been practically like free money with all the jobs that have been dispatched remotely (from the house) on PRO cards because the company/union was desperate to fill the job. And that’s 3/m up to Master. I can’t speak for MEBA billets.
As I recall it, it was the evil bald-headed Matson dude who came out of AMO, and threatened MM&P with the loss of those ships to AMO officers. We took an extraordinary wage loss to keep those newbuilds.
Regarding why the degrading relationship between APL and MMP….Because APL office has behaved in a retaliatory manner towards both its senior deck and engine officers over the last several years, as well shown to be deceitful, petty and generally (towards all the union contracts) very resistant to paying for items that were clearly stated in black-and-white language in each CBA and MOU. You play ball their way or you can consider yourself pink slipped in very short order. APL is also now involved in a seaman protection act case against them by the DOL related to a fired LDO who refused to sign an unjustified LOW.
I don’t doubt that happened. But MEBA most certainly bid on all officer jobs. And yes it was bad wages for many years… lower than Express Ships back in 2007
MEBA being barred from hotel regarding OSG/ATC mate organizing…..,No, it was an MMP-owned ‘Dude Ranch’ with a 24hr Satellite porno access. Unfortunately Lowen was in charge of bookkeeping. If it was somebody else we would have seen we were horribly in the red and let MEBA in.
Remember MEBA is basically getting 4 ships with the dissolution of the passthrough agreement.
AMO needed the engineers. Also the agreement with AMO regarding the APL ships means in the very unlikely scenario MMP wins their argument to osprey ships MEBA would be entitled to engine jobs but not the deck jobs. So they wouldn’t be able to offer AMO deck jobs back only engine. MEBA isn’t looking for MMP mates to join MEBA we have enough looking for work.
Exactly!
Maybe 2 Liberty MMP captains?…. For now.
FOS LMSR MEBA pass through captains will be filling MEBA billets soon. Those are going ROS soon anyway.
GD is a snake… a real life, honest to God true master class slimeball.
To SHOOTER: I certainly appreciate your agreement, but this forum won’t let me post proper language to describe him and all his lackeys at APL. Calling him a snake is like saying plain vanilla ice cream is spicy.
MEBA has made their bed and they can now lay in it. NOBODY can reasonably predict what AFL CIO will decide, nor what SIU / AMO do with the decision if it’s against them. They may simply say screw the organization and go their own way. MMP HQ will tell you as much. MEBA and AMO are gambling with nothing to lose because they simply don’t care about the labor force of the USMM, they only care about theirs. We shall see…..
A big part of the reason why there are any MMP CAPTS at Liberty is because LMC hates MEBA. They want to get rid of MEBA, they just can’t figure it out yet.
And to be very clear….. APL hates ALL the unions, because CMA CGM hates all unions. Doesn’t matter that they are French. Privately owned massive shipping company, they don’t care what anybody thinks of them. Trump is down on his knees satisfying Saade. They just don’t have a choice with US LABOR SUPPLY when old glory is on the stern. There was a time where APL hated MEBA waaaay more than MMP, but something changed when they signed their new CBA last year. MMP CBA with APL ends 01 OCT 2025. It’s going to be ugly, regardless of what happens with CMA CGM fleet expansion of non MSP USA APL ships.
This is just ridiculous, MEBA is not leaving the AFL-CIO and neither is AMO/SIU. MEBA even has leadership on the Executive Council of the AFL-CIO.
I know you are upset but once you read the contract language regarding Osprey it is clear that it’s a AMO contract and that a fight will be a long shot.
I bet you Liberty has no special love for those MMP captains. They might actually be more of a headache. The few jobs with Liberty that aren’t filled by MEBA I don’t believe are being sent to MMP anymore. Liberty is no different than APL, no company wants unions.
In no way, shape or form am I ‘upset’, nor should anything I have posted on here given you such impression. I really do not care for the misinformation that is being spread on here about how MMP OTB shipping, MITAGS access works, and how company required courses come into existence.
I did not say that anyone was leaving AFL CIO…. If the ruling is against them, they can go their own way by ignoring it. Which also means that if the AFLCIO chooses, those leadership positions held by SIU and MEBA with AFL-CIO may not be around for very long.
And the last thing I would have confidence in from ‘leadership’ at APL is that they know how to read a properly read and understand a contract.
No one is saying that you should rely on the “leadership” at APL to tell you what the contract means. Seriously!?
You should ask your union for permission to read the APL contract language including all the MOUs etc.
The AFL-CIO issue is between AMO/SIU and MMP. MEBA is not involved in terms of bringing a case against AMO/SIU nor defending anything with MMP.
There is always a possibility that MMP would win the ruling. But it’s a long shot. Doesn’t hurt to take it though.
Very hard to stomach the 12 hr day on the AMO pass thru for the new tonnage. I think this will be a first for MEBA. I know this is an AMO thing but now every MEBA company is going to want this. There are lots of contracts coming up soon too.
I don’t recall any language about MEBA mates being able to pass thru to the APL new tonnage. Did I miss this n the MOU?
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Agree with you. Applicants can certainly get out, especially if they grab whatever is available, are willing to take classes, stay after lob call and make an effort to figure out the system. The folks who are lazy and just show for job call are the ones with issues.
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I’ve only worked one AMO contract like this. It was two ships on the same contract, and the contract said something along the lines of “if a 12 hour work day is not required then you don’t have to work all 12 hours but you still get paid”. Basically, get your shit done. If it takes 12 hours, then it does. If it takes 8 hours, then you get 4 hours off. This was interpreted differently by different captains. One was happy as long as work was done on time and people weren’t openly fucking off. One was a Nazi and made sure to check that everyone worked 12 hours.
Idk who negotiates these fuckin things, I don’t know anyone who’s a big proponent of the 12 hour no OT contracts.
OSG and waterman do the 12hr thing. Most engineers hate it.
I wonder what the contract language will be about work hours. If it’s up to the chief, the MEBA ships might be a little more relaxed depending on workload.
I work 12hr days on the express ships but it’s for the overtime and I usually take a night off every now and then, especially during hour changes.
No one wants to work for OSG because of the 12hr day, the wages are middle of the road for MEBA, and most the chiefs have a reputation for being assholes.
If it’s true the wages on these APL ships are slightly less than OSG, with 12hr days and a run to India and back I can’t see the membership being very excited about it.