[QUOTE=Ctony;179437]Not only do some folks like 6/6, from what we’ve seen from this thread and others, but some companies and unions must like it too.
Come to think of it, the handful of union jobs I had specified 6/6 in the contract.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Because the unions actually work for the companies that want smaller crews, not union members who need larger crew sizes for proper rest, and more jobs or union members.
I liked 4/8 better when we had it, but 6/6 is ok for me. I’m use to it. The only problem is when too many of those 6’s stretch into 9’s and 12’s.
I remember those sweetheart union contracts that said no overtime for masters. That really sucked.
I also remember the union contracts that required overtime pay, but the union refused to enforce it.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;179438]Yes. Because the unions actually work for the companies that want smaller crews, not union members who need more larger rew sizes for proper rest and more jobs.
I liked 4/8 better when we had it, but 6/6 is ok for me. I’m use to it. The only problem is when too many of those 6’s stretch into 9’s and 12’s.[/QUOTE]
They specify 6/6 so Joe boss doesn’t make them do 12/12 which most tug guys dislike, or some other bullshit it where they try and say you’ll only get paid when on watch and only on watch when needed. Something on a contract doesn’t make it the preferred choice but often the lesser of the evil options.
[QUOTE=Ctony;179437]Not only do some folks like 6/6, from what we’ve seen from this thread and others, but some companies and unions must like it too.[/QUOTE]
No one prefers working 6x6 over 4x8.
Of course companies prefer 6x6, it means they need 1/3 less crew.
A while ago I made a 3000 mile, four port, trip on a four man non-union boat that was a sister ship to a union boat That I ran 30 years ago with 10 men.
There is at least 30 years of solid sleep-science research available to any who would do some researching. It’s interesting the American Waterways Operators (AWO) would need to commission yet another sleep-study. I guess the 30 plus years of sleep research didn’t support the result they wanted. After 30 years on 6 and 6 watches , no one is going to tell me that 6 and 6 watches are actually healthier than 4 and 8 hour watches.
Unions don’t need to do new research, nor should they. The Coast Guard should show leadership on work/rest hours but they have dropped the ball once again and deferred to the owners of the marine industry. There is a wealth of sleep research out there including two studies by the USCG.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;179436]The unions, MMP Inland, SIU, IBU, etc. should be commissioning their own academics to do a study, and peer reviews on the other studies, on this 6/6 schedule issue for presentation to the USCG. The unions that are supposed to represent organized Mariners do not do their job.
I’ll say it before someone else does. When the unions don’t do their job, I cannot ride their coattails for free.[/QUOTE]
Unions would only get involved if the members filed grievance because the rotation has a hardship. Since 6 x 6 includes 4 hours OT everyday, most members don’t complain too much. I have been on a union ship that had the 6x6 in the contract and they wanted to go to a 12 x 12 so each watch was asked if the were willing to switch. It’s was really a no brainier as having 12 hours off was awesome.
I know galley riders who work 6in6 who get right on watch and fall asleep ever 2 mins at the galley table aren’t complaining. Maybe the coast guard should crack down on the guys with narcolepsy
see that’s discrimination because some guys drink so much coffee they cant sleep off watch, and because they can’t sleep off watch from all the coffee, they have to drink so much coffee on watch; and sleep on the table between cups. I’ve seen it many times.
[QUOTE=brjones;179480]Unions would only get involved if the members filed grievance because the rotation has a hardship. Since 6 x 6 includes 4 hours OT everyday, most members don’t complain too much. I have been on a union ship that had the 6x6 in the contract and they wanted to go to a 12 x 12 so each watch was asked if the were willing to switch. It’s was really a no brainier as having 12 hours off was awesome.[/QUOTE]
We had 6/6 in the tug contract, but it was all straight time.
Are not unions suppose to represent their members? What is that political action fund for, if not for advocating for the interests of Mariners before Congress and the Administration?
You bump into the straight/ot thing on a 6/6 schedule more with operating engineers unions etc too. weird, but I guess better than re-writing their whole contract.
Tugsailor said:
"We had 6/6 in the tug contract, but it was all straight time.
Are not unions suppose to represent their members? What is that political action fund for, if not for advocating for the interests of Mariners before Congress and the Administration?"
Who said Unions didn’t advocate for improved work/rest hours? Even that defunct corrupt union in NY presented work/rest issues to the Towing Safety Advisory Committee (TSAC) and the Coast Guard at several meetings of TSAC almost eight years ago. This issue isn’t new by any means. The Coast Guard has been kicking this can down the road for 20 years or more. Just like the long-awaited “Subchapter-M” towing vessel inspections. They have kicked that can for 12 years and still counting.
Apparently the Coast Guard brass welcomes more controversy and endless studies. It provides the backdrop to justify more endless delays on effective regulation and administration of marine safety concerns for mariners. Every delay saves money for the owners of the marine industry.
The work/rest issue doesn’t need yet more studies, there is enough very credible science to refute the AWO study completely. What is needed is effective action on the wealth of science on mariner work/rest already out there. Hell, read a Coast Guard Boat Station Manual; the Coast Guard specifically addresses crew-fatigue on their own vessels! What do we the mariner get? We get the limp-dick response by the US Coast Guard that they will defer manning issues to the marine industry, in other words the owners.
6 and 6? I wish I could sleep for 5 straight hours!!!
At McAllister in Port Everglades we do 55 to 65 ship assist in a two week hitch with a 3 man crew. The captain has fallen asleep twice during a Ship Assist with a line out. We assist tankers, cruise ships full of passengers, atb’s, container ships. We work with sheer exhaustion round the clock. We are threatened with termination if we shut the boat down for a rest period. The boss even wants us to paint while waiting for the next ship job.
Forget about any enforcement of CFR’s by the Coast Guard or even the vessel document which requires a 4 man crew. Sector Miami doesn’t even answer the phone or call you back after you leave a message. They don’t give damn!
The captain should grow some balls and quit. He’ll be in a shit load of trouble when something happens and the USCG investigates and very likely lose his license.
[QUOTE=jafersure;179579]6 and 6? I wish I could sleep for 5 straight hours!!!
At McAllister in Port Everglades we do 55 to 65 ship assist in a two week hitch with a 3 man crew. The captain has fallen asleep twice during a Ship Assist with a line out. We assist tankers, cruise ships full of passengers, atb’s, container ships. We work with sheer exhaustion round the clock. We are threatened with termination if we shut the boat down for a rest period. The boss even wants us to paint while waiting for the next ship job.
Forget about any enforcement of CFR’s by the Coast Guard or even the vessel document which requires a 4 man crew. Sector Miami doesn’t even answer the phone or call you back after you leave a message. They don’t give damn![/QUOTE]
If a company with the size, experience, and capital of McAllister with a big ISM program does this, imagine what some of the little, nearly insolvent, small companies do.
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[QUOTE=jafersure;179579]6 and 6? I wish I could sleep for 5 straight hours!!!
At McAllister in Port Everglades we do 55 to 65 ship assist in a two week hitch with a 3 man crew. The captain has fallen asleep twice during a Ship Assist with a line out. We assist tankers, cruise ships full of passengers, atb’s, container ships. We work with sheer exhaustion round the clock. We are threatened with termination if we shut the boat down for a rest period. The boss even wants us to paint while waiting for the next ship job.
Forget about any enforcement of CFR’s by the Coast Guard or even the vessel document which requires a 4 man crew. Sector Miami doesn’t even answer the phone or call you back after you leave a message. They don’t give damn![/QUOTE]
If a company with the size, experience, and capital of McAllister with a big ISM program does this, imagine what some of the little, nearly insolvent, small companies do.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;179601]If a company with the size, experience, and capital of McAllister with a big ISM program does this, imagine what some of the little, nearly insolvent, small companies do.[/QUOTE]
That’s how Wilmington Tug ran a few years ago (they still might). If the boat ties up fit two hours waiting on a ship that counts as “rest” for the captain. That’s how they claimed they didn’t go over 12 hours most days.
A three man crew for a liveaboard ship assist tug is absurd. I guess if they are working in a port that only does a handful of jobs a week, but up to 65 jobs in a two week period? That’s pretty busy.
Should be capt, mate (one that can drive on their own), engineer (that has deck duties as well) and ab/deckhand.
And the off watch should get overtime if the boat is doing a power indirect or something of that nature.
