As it reads in the policy, the assessment are to take the place of the training courses by educating the mariner and assuring they are skilled in each assessment. Assessments are a way to prove the mariner has been trained in each competency. So literally yes cavo is right, the training (onboard or school) is not the assessments. Assessment is done after training is complete. The USCG right now does not require training other than the STCW portion (radar, bst, med care provider, etc). So get trained in the competencies however you want: school, self teaching, asking a shipmate… Just be able to prove to your assessor that you can do it all, be able to pass the 9 modules, and you will be done.
Training schools offer assessment courses that will put you in a simulator and assess your abilities on all of the 04-02 assessments and be accepted by the coast guard for CM/M.
Don’t bother arguing with me, I got my cm agt oceans without any courses. How long this scenario will remain I have no idea.
Looks like you got VERY lucky Kraken! I was not allowed to even APPLY for my CM upgrades until I had completed all (almost all, they took the application with only 2 classes left but they would NOT take it with me still needing all of them or with me still needing 4 of them, I tried to give it to them and they refused it) the STCW approved classes. I was also not allowed to enter a formal protest or request for waiver until I had completed all of the classes and by that time I was sick and tired of fighting and just wanted my license. If I remember correctly it had something to do with ‘standing’. Regardless, I already had previous USCG approved classes that covered all of the required STCW material plus MUCH MORE and yet, the USCG decided that since those classes were taken before STCW was implemented, then they could not apply. So, I got screwed out of a lot of time and money re-taking classes I already had taken before. The USCG approved them, they had records of what was taught, the school (and I) had records of my test grades and other things used to assess me at that time. Yet, not one bit of any of that did one bit of good. Looks to me like we are still in the situation where different evaluators give different results. Again, you got VERY, VERY lucky!
The way I read the changes, they don;t apply to CM level anyway.
I do agree that we SHOULD not need any classes to get trained, but that is how the USCG has been interpreting it. We SHOULD be able to continue to get trained onboard like we always have but that seems to be unacceptable according to interpretations of STCW. Assessments and tests should be good enough proof that you know how to do something at least at that point in time. Takeing an expensive class for a week or two is NOT any better proof of that, just expensive proof!
JP, I agree with your reading of the new policy. It says (unless I missed a more recent one) that they will no longer require the classes for 2M and below, it made no mention of CM/M.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;58639]JP, I agree with your reading of the new policy. It says (unless I missed a more recent one) that they will no longer require the classes for 2M and below, it made no mention of CM/M.[/QUOTE]
That is true. However, the reason that 01-02 was changed and a new policy was published 07-11 (for 3rd Mate OICNW courses) was because several mariners over the years appealed the course requirements and won. The USCG (headquarters) made a decision and determined that they CANNOT require a mariner to take courses that are not mandated by regulation. Policy letters alone are simply not good enough, legally. That same reasoning applies to those courses not in regulation for the Chief Mate / Master Management level. Although a new policy has not been published, the checklist was changed, and I doubt a new policy will be published because the STCW SNPRM will in effect fix these requirements by putting most all of them in regulation, sooner or later.
Several people that I know personally have been approved to test minus the Management Level courses over the last month or so. You should go in with the understanding that you may have to ask for reconsideration or appeal a decision to Coast Guard headquarters to get this outcome on your application, but in large part, based on what I have witnessed, it should not be necessary.
As far as JP, I am not sure what happen to you, but if you are going to an REC to drop off an application or email electronically, they cannot evaluate requirements at the REC. That is the NMC’s job. The REC should only make sure the application is complete before forwarding the application to NMC. ie, they make sure you have a seatime letter, but cannot determine if you have enough. They should only check the application acceptance list…
Can anyone direct me to where it says the courses will be required as per the new stcw or regulations? People are saying they expect them to become a requirement again but as of right now I have not found anything stating that anything more than the normal stcw requirements of bst, adv fire, med care, radar, etc are required. I’ve read the proposed stcw 2010 and the new recommendations and do not see anything other than “course/training requirements of A-II/2” which are what I outlined above.
I spent some time last night searching and I can’t find in the CFR nor the STCW where it reads that these management level CM/M courses are required. I thought I had read they were required way back when, but now I’m not so sure! In the standing STCW where it list several ways the assensments may be accomplished it reads “in-service training”, In the post Manila STCW the wording has been changed to read “in-service experience”. Either of those is done at work aboard ship in my experience.
Anybody see something different, did I miss something? What gives??
