1600 Master to 3/M

mrolnick is right, if you have a 3m (on the new system) and have 365 seadays of OICNW, you can get your 2nd Mates automatically (but you will have to be within 1 year of a Flashing Light Certificate) you can also take the 1600T Master upgrade, which is 1 70question exam, consisting of Deck Gen, Deck Safety, Nav Gen & Ships Business ??'s ( I just took mine down in Charleston in April, had several stability ??'s as well).<br><br>You’ll also have to take the Rules of the Road exam if you are outside 1 year from passing that as well.<br><br>I noticed ALOT of business questions & inland nav questions on my 70 question exam. I did alot of searching for a study guide for it, and there really isnt one. I happend to have gotten lucky and been in the process of taking some of my C/M upgrade classes when I decided to test for that 1600TMaster upgrade (i had already rcvd my 2nd Mates, and was still within the 1year timeline of my original Upgrade packet, so I scheduled for to test just b/c I had the oppurtunity) Those upgrade classes really helped me out im sure…but overall if youve been sailing on your 3rds in the industry (and learning along the way!!!) its not a hard exam.<br><br><br>Good Luck!!

Since we’re all getting confused, let me add to this mess. Check this out (from the MSM):<br><br>“Master 1600 GT Upon Oceans or Near Coastal Waters To Master Any GT Upon Inland Waters.<br>Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and ©. Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.”

Being that I’m so stupid, maybe the USCG needs to update the “picture” in 46 CFR 10.403. I propose this one to facilitate clarity for the confused:<br><img style=“width: 216px; height: 243px;” alt="" src="http://gcaptain.com/maritime/forum/extensions/YUIEditor/img/291219829399.gif]

Speaking of clarity, here’s a shot of the “no public access” area of the NMC that was recently smuggled out at great risk to life and limb. If you look really hard you can see my last application packet in the right hand of the figure about to ascend to the evaluator’s office:<br><br><img alt="" style=“border: 3px solid black;” src="http://gcaptain.com/maritime/forum/extensions/YUIEditor/img/3821219834941.jpg]

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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]I could not resist posting a comment on this subject. This is my experience while upgrading from 100 Master NC to 1600 <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags” /><st1:place w:st="on]<st1:City w:st="on]Mate</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on]NC</st1:State></st1:place>:</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]I submitted an application to evaluate for 1600 <st1:place w:st="on]<st1:City w:st="on]Mate</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on]NC</st1:State></st1:place>, upon completing the following requirement: Adv FF, BRM, Flashing Light, Policy Letter 01-02 assessments. I was approved to test. I attended the Terrestrial & Coastal Navigation: OICNW at MPT (Great school/class btw). I tested in Aug/Sep ’06 and passed. I was working as a 1600 Mate. ARPA & GMDSS classes were completed and I wanted to have them added to my STCW certificate. I submitted an application in Feb ’07 at the Miami REC requesting the addition and also, the evaluation of 1600 Master NC/3<SUP>rd</SUP> Mate Unlimited. <st1:City w:st="on]Miami</st1:City> sent my file to <st1:place w:st="on]<st1:City w:st="on]NMC</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on]WV</st1:State></st1:place> for processing. <st1:place w:st="on]<st1:City w:st="on]NMC</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on]WV</st1:State></st1:place> took until Aug ’07 to process my application. Upon reviewing my application and file it was determined “You should not have that license because you do not have the $20,000 worth of STCW classes, Miami will issue you a 1600 Mate INLAND license and you will have to send the NC license in”. I found this out while still at work. Upon getting home, I had a letter stating the recall of the NC license and an approval to test for 1600 Master. I studied, tested and passed the 1600 Master exams. Fortunately, I did not have a break in my employment because of this. My license now reads: 1600 Master NC/1600 Mate Inland. This was done so I “don’t loose my OICNW testing”. I have yet to start on the “$20,000” worth of STCW classes though. I completed the assessments, and yet I have to do the STCW classes? I was really “blown away” when I was told “$20,000 worth of STCW classes” in lieu of 17 STCW classes. I guess one has to buy their way into getting the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> Mate license. I looked at the CFR’s and did not find anywhere stating completion of the STCW classes. I still plan on taking the STCW classes as well as celestrial. I can’t complain too much, at least I have 1600 <st1:place w:st="on]<st1:City w:st="on]Master</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on]NC</st1:State></st1:place> along with DPO Unlimited.</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]Safe Sailing,<br>Capt Brian</font><o:p><font face=“Times New Roman” size=3> </font></o:p></P>

<P>I like 46 CFR 10.402(b). I use it as a measure of when I’ve been here too long. When I can keep a straight face while explaining the fact that we issue licenses of “Any Gross Tons” with a tonnage limitation (i.e. a limited unlimited license) I will know it’s time to go somewhere else.</P><font face="Times New Roman]
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]<span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial]“Master of Steam and Motor Vessels of Any Gross Tons Restricted to Service on Vessels of Not More Than 4,000 Gross Tons” may be almost as much of an oxymoron as <A href="http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/CGI.asp]<font color=#606420>this one</font></A> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p></span></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]<o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]</font>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training & Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]<font color=#3354aa>James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</font></A></P>

I guess Brain you don’t have to do STCW classes if you simply want to hang your license on your trophy wall. The license is useless without STCW unless you stay inland.

I have held a 1600 Ton Master of Oceans since early 1998. I also have a Towing endorsement, and Master Large OSV (for OSV’s to 6000 GT)
I have been interested in getting my 3rd mate Unlimited for quite a while now, and have started the round about task of doing so. There seems to be a lot of unclarity, on the route to do this. I hold an STCW 95 certificate, and went through the whole gambit of classes many years ago to get it. BRM,GMDSS,ect…ect…
I called the REC New Orleans, and asked what it would take with my present license…I was told “Take Flashing light, and Medical care provider courses, and send in Your application” SO I DID!!!
I have yet to hear from the West Virginia NMC as of yet, but I fully expect to hear what I read above somewhere, about taking the 20,000 dollars worth of courses! LOL
I understand fully the requirements, and assesments that are needed to obtain the license, but I also find it ridiculous that a 20 year old kid, who comes directly out of an Academy is more Qualified for the license, than someone who has been in the industry for 20 years.
I am not trying to knock on the Academies here, so don’t get your feathers in a ruffle! I respect the kids, and Alumni from them! I have had the pleasure of having many of them as my mates over the years.
I just want a CLEAR, DEFINITIVE answer on the proper route to take here. I, like many others find it hard to seperate myself from my family on my time off, to go take courses, some of which to me seem to be a complete waste of time!
Maybe I am just rambling at the mouth now…LOL
I’ll let you guys know what the NMC says…

Squeak,

No courses. Your STCW 95 and 1600T master exemplifies being qualified as an OICNW at the operational level…(that means 500T through 2nd mate under STCW). You will have to test because you have never tested under the new system. Going to Chief Mate opens a whole new can of worms with management level courses and test. Then you’ll be looking at $20,000 in courses to even be evaluated by the Coast Guard, but most companies with unlimited vessels pay for these classes.

I have the same licenses as you with one exception, I also have a Chief Mate, So I know where you’re coming from.

Good Luck.

Anchorman,
Thanks, an I hope you are right! I have NO problem with taking the test, that is the least of my worries right now!! LOL
I also understand the courses required to go up to the Managment level. It has just been quite a few months of uncertainty, on just what is the correct process. I just want the opportunity to get to the next level in my career.
My application has been in for 3 weeks now, and is awaiting an evaluator assignment. Lets hope you are right!
Capt. Squeak

Mrolnick,
It depends on who you talk to at the Coast Guard.
If you read Policy letter 01-02 page 1-6 paragraph d. If you hold a 1600 ton license based on sea service that began on or after 1998 no further testing or assessements are required for a third mates license.
If you do not have appropriate tonnage they will place a tonnage restriction on the license.
I know of someone who falls into this paragraph but the NMC will not issue him a third mates license without testing and assessments and taking the STCW courses. At the same time I know someone who had no problem. I personally sat in a room while on a conference call with the New Orleans REC on the phone telling an individual that they didn’t care what the policy letter said, he was not going to get his 3rd mates license without testing and going through the assessments. They further stated that it was a poorly written policy letter that they were not following. Of course the New Orleans REC no longer has any control over that.
If they follow the policy letter and you fall within that paragraph you should not have to take any courses or test again until your Chief Mates license. Except for flashing lights.
I have just started my Chief Mates program with the StarCenter. I have had no problem getting the courses that I have wanted so far.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/MLD-MA-NMC-01v09_DkGuide_Nov2007.pdf
Page 11 of the…
Guide for Administration of

Merchant Marine

Deck Examinations

(Deck Guide)
9. Full Exams Required. An examination is required in all cases (except for river licenses) in which an applicant

wants to change tonnage groups or otherwise raise the grade of his or her license. Tonnage groups are:

• Not More Than 200 Gross Registered Tons Domestic (500 GT ITC)

• 200 through 1,600 Gross Registered Tons Domestic (500 through 3,000 GT ITC)

• Any Gross Tons (Greater than 1,600 GRT Domestic)
I guess it depends on if they read the policy letter, or the deck guide, but if any person has not taken the OICNW test, regardless of when accured sea-service took place, they would have to test. The point of the policy was to raise competency of 500 ton to 2nd mate to the second mate level with one test (OICNW). Some people never took the OICNW test, but went to 3rd mate without testing. This was a mistake. NMC caught them at 2nd and made them take the test.

So, how do you know if you have taken the OICNW test and how do you convence the NMC that you have?
anchorman, I heard you are in Guam, is this true?

Yep. I’m in Guam.
You would know if you’ve taken the OICNW test by the terrestrial module, and the fact that the coversheet would have said that. All results are recorded and centralized on NMC’c database.

If you started to test after 2/1/02, you probably took the OICNW test. If you passed the test after 5/1/02, you definitely took the new OICNW test.
The only ones who took the old test after 2/1/02 are those whose applications were approved before 2/1/02 but hadn’t started to take the test and expressly asked to take the old test… For those few, the database used to record licenses will have a note that you did not take the new test.
The cover sheet alone isn’t enough. Although the exams are exactly the same, we have different “module” numbers for Mate 500, Mate 1600, and 3rd Mate. This is because we have an outdated exam system and this is the only way to segregate statistics on how each license does on the exam compared to the others. The numbers are different, the exams are the same.
James D. Cavo
Chief, Mariner Training & Assessment Division
USCG National Maritime Center
James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil

I have a 1600/3000 Ocean and 3rd Unlimited (May 2000) and was told I had to take flashing light AGAIN to get my 2nd Unlimited. Since I had taken it and passed (before Feb 2002) I am having a hard time swallowing someone in Virginia telling me that I have to take it again(some class x $$$ and time and not USCG rec center). Does anyone have any idea as to an logic behind this…Mike??

46 CFR 11.401(h) requires the test on every original issue or raise in grade of an unlimited tonnage license, this inclusdes going from 3rd Mate to 2nd Mate.

Not only because of the reason that JD says but also because flashing light is the wave of the future!

The policy is understood Chief Cavo, but why do we need to pay the school prices to test? Why do the USCG RECs not have the testing facilities for the flashing light?

There probably isn’t anyone left in the CG who can read a light …