a lot of tug generators (99kw) have alternators supplying 12v or 24v to their batteries as well.
Cajaya,
you sound very knowledgeable and my guess is that you remind all your shipmates of that all the time. A major trait that is often overlooked offshore is an individuals ability to be a good shipmate. This is independent of their specific job skills and includes being collegial, self contained. friendly and able to get on well with other shipmates. It is invaluable.I have had crew that had great skills but the downfall was that they just couldn’t STFU. No body want’s to live that way on boat even if they are experts on constant-volt chargers.
[QUOTE=CapChitown;164964]Cajaya,
you sound very knowledgeable and my guess is that you remind all your shipmates of that all the time. A major trait that is often overlooked offshore is an individuals ability to be a good shipmate. This is independent of their specific job skills and includes being collegial, self contained. friendly and able to get on well with other shipmates. It is invaluable.I have had crew that had great skills but the downfall was that they just couldn’t STFU. No body want’s to live that way on boat even if they are experts on constant-volt chargers.[/QUOTE]
No, actually I usually kept my mouth shut and it went quite the other way, and they tried to say I wasn’t that good.
It was my [I]work[/I] that bothered some people. And that wasn’t just me, that was the men I encountered out there that had the same problem.
When people said ridiculous things like that, I didn’t say anything at all. I just thought to myself [I]“wow”[/I].
Cajaya,
On this large high tech osv, wouldn’t you think there might be two sources of power for the generator control system? Many gens have two sources, either from two separate battery banks or by one battery bank and a 24v bus or by two independent 24v buses. There is no way it will only take power from a single 24v bus. I’m sorry, but with the information provided, you are incorrect. If even a single diode is bad in your circuit, you could lose power if you disconnect your backup source, which is most likely your starting battery. Like Fraq said, under certain circumstances, you certainly would want to disconnect your batteries to ensure you don’t have an unknown single point failure.
I’ve sat idle for long enough on this thread, but I couldn’t keep my mouth shut any longer. Your poor attitude on listening to your superiors is alarming. And despite my forum name, I am not a good ole boy, and have worked with deep sea engineers, and can understand your frustrations about dealing with some engineers. Most of the time it’s easier to shut up, say “you’re right, I didn’t see it like that, but ok” and carry on.
[QUOTE=gulf_engineer;164966] you could lose power if you disconnect your backup source, which is most likely your starting battery. [/QUOTE]
nope.
[QUOTE=gulf_engineer;164966]
On this large high tech osv, wouldn’t you think there might be two sources of power for the generator control system? [/QUOTE]
There is a backup system. But definitely not in the starting batteries.
These are [B]clearly[/B] labelled starting batteries.
It is very clear when you look at the screen that says “24v [I]system[/I] ok”.
“These are clearly labelled starting batteries.”
Any engineer who believes what a label says, without tracing the system out him/her self, doesn’t have enough experience to intelligently comment on how a ship is wired. These are not off the shelf boats, there is no set standard for “starting batteries”. Just because one boat was built a certain way, doesn’t mean that they are all built that way. And if you trust labels, and assume that wiring is consistent with other vessels you’ve been on, you are setting yourself up for failure.
[QUOTE=Yeasty McFlaps;164972]“These are clearly labelled starting batteries.”
Any engineer who believes what a label says, without tracing the system out him/her self, doesn’t have enough experience to intelligently comment on how a ship is wired. These are not off the shelf boats, there is no set standard for “starting batteries”. Just because one boat was built a certain way, doesn’t mean that they are all built that way. And if you trust labels, and assume that wiring is consistent with other vessels you’ve been on, you are setting yourself up for failure.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter if they are labeled or not. When you see batteries next to the only battery started engine with HUGE cables on them, you know they are for STARTING.
ONLY for starting. If some rinky dink technician/engineer wanted to wire other things to it on some old boat, or on a [B]small[/B] boat that is one thing. Not in a commercial application such as this with brand new equipment, a 24v system and 24v backup system that is shared and electronic controls that are all integrated and that are tied into the automation.
People’s personal fishing boats are different. I’m talking about a 300ft supply boat.
And, if he knew anything about the way engine room plants were designed at all (which he didn’t), he would know that the reason that three engines are air started, and one is electrically started, is encase something happens to the start air. The ONLY reason. So, [I]aside[/I] from the blatant, obvious and conspicuously clear setup of the system, it wouldn’t make any sense logically, that the one engine which is identical in every way accept the [I]starting[/I] method, and is tied into all the same bus systems etc would be wired up in such an archaic way as to be connected to the [I]starting[/I] batteries for things such as engine control and fuel supply.
Furthermore, even if it did use the start batteries as a backup source (which it didn’t) that wouldn’t make it [I]run[/I] off of batteries. Trying to justify this ridiculous claim does not change the fact that he didn’t know how to locate the source of an electrical ground or that you couldn’t just [I]ignore[/I] and let be huge electrical ground faults on vital pieces of equipment. Even if pointed out to him, he wouldn’t think it meant anything. All he would know is that it would eventually brake down for [I]some[/I] reason. When that “eventually” happened to be, could be at [I][U]any[/U][/I] time.
In the big picture of things, all of that is irrelevant. The point is, that guy is totally incompetent, but is well regarded because of his evaluations, what people say and ability to “kiss up”. He still has his job and is getting LEAD pay and a large high tech vessel. It is obvious that something like that can be a recipe for [I]disaster[/I] given the right set of circumstances.
Again, that was just [I]one[/I] example.
You need a job Cajaya. You can’t just sit around and argue about batteries all the time. Maybe if you’d stop disconnecting batteries on running generators, Jeux Bawss can give you a job in the galley or something.
Well that escalated quickly.
(Insert anchorman meme here) stupid iPhone app 
[QUOTE=Yeasty McFlaps;164974]You need a job Cajaya. You can’t just sit around and argue about batteries all the time. Maybe if you’d stop disconnecting batteries on running generators, Jeux Bawss can give you a job in the galley or something.[/QUOTE]
No it didn’t escalate quickly, I was just trying to get Cajaya’s goat. Just messing with her a bit.
“This is like saying that closing the air valve to the air operated starter will cause the engine to stop.”
I had a really good relief & he told me on crew change that if I closed the air valves to the starters on the Caterpillar C-280’s the engines would shut down. I thought that hard to believe but I didn’t argue with him nor did I call him an idiot after he left. A few days later when secured to the dock when it was time to stop the engines, I closed the air starting valves & bleed the pressure off. He was correct, the engine stopped with an “Emergency Stop Failure” alarm.
I don’t care if it’s the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Engineer, Oiler or galley hand, when someone tells me something I don’t refute them until I can check it out for myself. It doesn’t take much to learn something new every day if you pay attention & have an open mind.
[QUOTE=Sand_Pebble;164982]“This is like saying that closing the air valve to the air operated starter will cause the engine to stop.”
I had a really good relief & he told me on crew change that if I closed the air valves to the starters on the Caterpillar C-280’s the engines would shut down. I thought that hard to believe but I didn’t argue with him nor did I call him an idiot after he left. A few days later when secured to the dock when it was time to stop the engines, I closed the air starting valves & bleed the pressure off. He was correct, the engine stopped with an “Emergency Stop Failure” alarm.
I don’t care if it’s the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Engineer, Oiler or galley hand, when someone tells me something I don’t refute them until I can check it out for myself. It doesn’t take much to learn something new every day if you pay attention & have an open mind.[/QUOTE]
Did he say why, or did he say “because the engine runs off of air”?
[QUOTE=cajaya;164984]Did he say why, or did he say “because the engine runs off of air”?[/QUOTE]No he didn’t. But if my relief made a mistake & had said the engines ran off the air starters he would have still been correct about the engine stopping once the valves were closed & pressure lost. But sure, if your former co-worker meant the starting batteries were still causing the starter to turn & that was the reason the engine was operating at the correct RPM then he is an idiot.
A C280, just like a 3600, needs air for the guillotine, could be that the engine sensed the lack of air pressure and shut down as a precaution in the event of an overspeed or any other malfunction.
[QUOTE=caldwell275;164988]A C280, just like a 3600, needs air for the guillotine, could be that the engine sensed the lack of air pressure and shut down as a precaution in the event of an overspeed or any other malfunction.[/QUOTE]
I think that is exactly what it was. Before then, I wouldn’t have thought twice about closing a starting air valve to an engine while it was running. Why would an engine need the air starter after it had already started, right? Later my relief told me he found out the hard way while trying to fix an air leak on an operating main engine (with a shaft generator on-line) while underway.
I don’t care who it is, if someone tells me doing “such & such” will cause an engine to shut down I am going to take their word for it until I am in a place to thoroughly go over the system to prove them wrong or in my case, prove them right.
[QUOTE=cajaya;164971]
It is very clear when you look at the screen that says “24v [I]system[/I] ok”.[/QUOTE]
That is one of the most dangerous and reckless statements you can make. Just going by what the automations says is dumb. “But the automation says we have a 24v system, and it’s ok”
It says it in the automation and on each engine
It said it on the automation, and on each engine. If you had the slightest clue about the system I am referring to you would know what I’m talking about. Evidently, you don’t.
You are only reaffirming my thoughts on some of the osv engineers. Let me guess, you have a dde 4000?
[QUOTE=Sand_Pebble;164990]I think that is exactly what it was. Before then, I wouldn’t have thought twice about closing a starting air valve to an engine while it was running. Why would an engine need the air starter after it had already started, right? Later my relief told me he found out the hard way while trying to fix an air leak on an operating main engine (with a shaft generator on-line) while underway.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that info by the way. I will keep that in mind if I ever come accross one of those engines