I have a question for some of you z drive guys… I have a little bit of z drive experience from my pervious employer… The company I work for just took delivery of their first z drive boat diesel electric, and we are working for Shell out of C port 2… my question is; what is the best method to back a 64 foot wide z drive vessel into a 72 foot wide slip? The reason I ask is because we have alot of people training on the new boat but only acouple have any zdrive experience… the only method I have seen is straight out at 90 and then using one to get moment and then putting back at 90 and zig zagging back and forth nearly hitting the sides of the slips going in… my previous experience tells me I should put one straight aft and one ahead and use the backing drive to steer my stern in and just tweak the heading with a little bow thruster, I really think this method would work but my captian doesnt think so. please give me your feedback… thanks
[QUOTE=OSVCaptain1977;120696]I have a question for some of you z drive guys… I have a little bit of z drive experience from my pervious employer… The company I work for just took delivery of their first z drive boat diesel electric, and we are working for Shell out of C port 2… my question is; what is the best method to back a 64 foot wide z drive vessel into a 72 foot wide slip? The reason I ask is because we have alot of people training on the new boat but only acouple have any zdrive experience… the only method I have seen is straight out at 90 and then using one to get moment and then putting back at 90 and zig zagging back and forth nearly hitting the sides of the slips going in… my previous experience tells me I should put one straight aft and one ahead and use the backing drive to steer my stern in and just tweak the heading with a little bow thruster, I really think this method would work but my captian doesnt think so. please give me your feedback… thanks[/QUOTE]
I’m conventional fixed single screw w/bow thruster. Typically for backing any distance - back dead slow (or stop if too fast) and steer with the bow thruster. One tug made up aft but not used unless required in a tight spot and/or wind or if things get out of shape.
I would go with your method, you should pick the way that you feel most comfortable with…proceed slow and don’t be afraid to stop it. “Slow like a Pro”
Not an osv guy (only a 150’ utility boat with thruster non dp) but a z-drive tug guy. I’d back in with both drives at 90 opposed, giving a little angle astern on both for sternway. I’d rotate them into a little bit of a twist As needed either opposed to the thruster or not depending what you need. You can overpower the opposite drive at 90 for small adjustments. Are they reversable/cpp or ahead only?
[QUOTE=z-drive;120703]Not an osv guy (only a 150’ utility boat with thruster non dp) but a z-drive tug guy. I’d back in with both drives at 90 opposed, giving a little angle astern on both for sternway. I’d rotate them into a little bit of a twist As needed either opposed to the thruster or not depending what you need. You can overpower the opposite drive at 90 for small adjustments. Are they reversable/cpp or ahead only?[/QUOTE]
Are you one of those guys that have prop wash coming out both side when you’re not moving?
Sometimes, depends what we’re doing. With CPP or diesel-electric I don’t think you’d have much wash if you didn’t want it.
Either way, with the drives @minimal angle astern on both with a zdrive boat has you closer to transverse and therefore your brakes/headway/ability to make adjustments rather than one all the way astern. A mistake guys make is straying far from transverse when holding station or transitioning between push/pull (in ship work). It depends on how quick the drives rotate too. I find it easier to have the drives with like 20-30 degrees astern and give it a shot of power rather than rotate the drives way around. Normally your engines will react faster than drives.
I am an engineer but have been on the bridge during docking in Fourchon and the mates quoted "Docking with DP is for “Wimpy males who lean toward the female persuasion.” No offense ladies. The people working in the GOM are excellent boat handelers and listen to them.
Been running a Zdrive boat out of c-port two for almost 4 years now. Run them opposed, just like the DP does in bias mode. You can very easily adjust port and stbd, and fore and aft. Diesel electric gives you a lot more speed control than a standard diesel drive. Have fun. Best time you you can have out of bed. Enjoy.
I don’t have very much zdrive experience. But I would have to agree 100% with zdrive’s comments. Both angled slightly for astern movement and use both when going astern, varying power or azimuth in order to straighten out. Using only one sounds like a sure recipe to zig zag back and forth nearly hitting the sides of the slip. If it is the boat I am thinking of it is probably fixed pitch prop with variable speed electric motor drives, therefore you can dial in a real slow rpm order.
The “Master” of the vessel I’m on teaches everyone to put one at 90 and out of gear. it doesn’t matter port or stbd it just depends on env factors. use the other to start your momentum astern and then to steer with. You go from astern to 45 to 90 (bias mode)as needed to keep you momentum and keep you off the side of the slip. the other drive is at 90 to work as a break to keep you off the other side if you need it. Of coarse you do use your bow thruster as needed to tweak your bow and your stern. You only have 3 ft on each side and one drive can not spin fast enough to keep the stern in the middle of the slip. you need both of them in bias to work these bigger boats in and out safely. one ahead and one astern will get you a bunch of unnecessary paperwork and probably a position on a conventional boat!I know the “Master” on “my” boat also frowns on people using social network while on watch!!
Back full than rotate ahead full to stop…all kidding aside go with z-drive method 
[QUOTE=OSVCaptain1977;120696]I have a question for some of you z drive guys… I have a little bit of z drive experience from my pervious employer… The company I work for just took delivery of their first z drive boat diesel electric, and we are working for Shell out of C port 2… my question is; what is the best method to back a 64 foot wide z drive vessel into a 72 foot wide slip? The reason I ask is because we have alot of people training on the new boat but only acouple have any zdrive experience… the only method I have seen is straight out at 90 and then using one to get moment and then putting back at 90 and zig zagging back and forth nearly hitting the sides of the slips going in… my previous experience tells me I should put one straight aft and one ahead and use the backing drive to steer my stern in and just tweak the heading with a little bow thruster, I really think this method would work but my captian doesnt think so. please give me your feedback… thanks[/QUOTE]
I always like one drive for backing the other drive 180 out for slowing or coming ahead. Never need to turn either more than a few degrees for slight adjustments in the slip. I only clutch in to get my momentum then clutch out and let the boat move steering basically with my bow thruster. Don’t need all that turbulence in a slip that tight with both running at 90 degrees, would splash all the water out…
Backing with the port and needing to pickup speed and push your stern to starboard just feather your drive… wait for it to get there… then clutch in… count a few Mississippi’s and clutch out… If you were needing to slow and push your stern to starboard use your starboard drive that is pointing opposite and feather it… I like to have the drives oppose each other because there is now longer time measured on this earth than waiting for your drive to spin around so you can start breaking… and I am sure you have already experienced the effect of getting in a hurry and clutching in the drive before it has swung around to where you wanted it.
If you keep your drives set up like this you would never need to turn more than 10 degrees either way… This gives you a more immediate response than waiting for a 90 degree turn to stop. I never drive in tandem mode while in tight quarters, always separated. And if just running around in Fourchon, then I keep both drives out.
Just another way to skin a cat.
[QUOTE=OSVCaptain1977;120696]I have a question for some of you z drive guys… I have a little bit of z drive experience from my pervious employer… The company I work for just took delivery of their first z drive boat diesel electric, and we are working for Shell out of C port 2… my question is; what is the best method to back a 64 foot wide z drive vessel into a 72 foot wide slip? The reason I ask is because we have alot of people training on the new boat but only acouple have any zdrive experience… the only method I have seen is straight out at 90 and then using one to get moment and then putting back at 90 and zig zagging back and forth nearly hitting the sides of the slips going in… my previous experience tells me I should put one straight aft and one ahead and use the backing drive to steer my stern in and just tweak the heading with a little bow thruster, I really think this method would work but my captian doesnt think so. please give me your feedback… thanks[/QUOTE]
With diesel electric, there is no minimum clutch power, so no need to oppose forces with two drives - like some vessels do to avoid clutching in/out all the time to back in those slips. Hell, just use one drive to back in, 1%, 2%, whatever - no minimum power, and have the other to slow you down…a little bit of angle always can offset the fact that z-drives are not centerline. At little thruster is needed too, but always use the backing z-drive on the side that has the wind/current will minimize bow thruster. But, at the end of the day, if you have a decent Captain, he should advocate a little guidance - not instructions like he’s driving the damn boat with your hands, and more importantly, for you to do it the way that makes you most comfortable behind the wheel - as long as it’s done efficient and safe.
I’d say a big factor is whether or not you can reverse the drive or not. Is this common for DE drives?
My thoughts coming from stuff you can’t always get less than idle rpm on without clutching out I’d want to “work out of” transverse, assuming you need to make a lot of adjustment. At least until you’ve mastered the boat and zdrive skills. If things are going smooth and you got the room then definitely just back her in normal. With “years” if experience I do way less that way now than when i started. This is all of course on tugs though.
With Drives that give you infinite control/reversibility then having one on/off the dock and another ahead/astern then that’s the definate way to go.
Never paid much thought to which drive to favor for backing in that kind of situation anchorman, but I like that idea. I always use the inboard for backing out of a slip with a barge.
[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;120727]I always like one drive for backing the other drive 180 out for slowing or coming ahead. Never need to turn either more than a few degrees for slight adjustments in the slip. I only clutch in to get my momentum then clutch out and let the boat move steering basically with my bow thruster. Don’t need all that turbulence in a slip that tight with both running at 90 degrees, would splash all the water out…
Backing with the port and needing to pickup speed and push your stern to starboard just feather your drive… wait for it to get there… then clutch in… count a few Mississippi’s and clutch out… If you were needing to slow and push your stern to starboard use your starboard drive that is pointing opposite and feather it… I like to have the drives oppose each other because there is now longer time measured on this earth than waiting for your drive to spin around so you can start breaking… and I am sure you have already experienced the effect of getting in a hurry and clutching in the drive before it has swung around to where you wanted it.
.[/QUOTE]
Everything I know about Z-drives comes from reading this thread…
This describes very closely they way I was taught to maneuver a conventional twin screw(177 ft ex-army FS). Just clutched in on both was about 5 or 6 kts so you didn’t want to use much. Close in we’d let it move on it’s own with no power and correct as needed by clutching in for a few second then out again. The control handle would be back in neural before the air controls had even answered. In other words you could put one handle ahead (or astern) leave it there for a few seconds and then back in neutral . You would then hear as the engine clutched in, took a load for a few second then clutched out.
DE or CPP would be a whole other ball game but the principle of avoiding a heavy hand if not needed applies.
I’ve spent 8 of the last 10 years on a zdrive vessel in Fourchon, and I do it just like Ea$y Money described. It’s the way to go for me.
If you are not cpp, I always like the opposing position because you are at a close advantage to ahead/astern and port starboard. For tugs, most working positions start from opposing you can limit your power as you angle the unit for/aft while maintaining a steady continuous control of the vessel. When coming into a dock I generally have my unit in the reverse mode on the side as to which the vessel is going to be berthed. And the outboard at a 45 ahead.
When backing into c-port I always use the one forward one aft method. Tried the 90 degree way once but my boat isn’t diesel electric and was bouncing off the sides.
Use one drive and the bow thrusters and it’s like parking a car. Keep the opposite facing drive as a brake.
[QUOTE=“CaptB;120818”]When backing into c-port I always use the one forward one aft method. Tried the 90 degree way once but my boat isn’t diesel electric and was bouncing off the sides.
Use one drive and the bow thrusters and it’s like parking a car. Keep the opposite facing drive as a brake.[/QUOTE]
I have a friend that works at a competitors company and his vessel is the same width as ours and thats how he does it…He told me to just use slight angles on your backing drive and the stern will just follow the angle of the drive rather it be port or stbd and I can add a slight angle to my forward facing drive just in case I do need a little push off. I know we all will eventually create our own style with time and experience level… Thanks for the input…
It should handle just like those blue z-drive boats you worked on. Just a little bigger and a different color.