[QUOTE=Steamer;148154]I know there isn’t much time to finish the sports page on that run between departures and arrivals but, geez, it doesn’t take all that long to rotate a voltmeter switch.[/QUOTE]
can you spell “cushy government job”? can you spell “failure to use proper diligence”? can you also spell “lack of accountability”?
nothing grossly overpaid bus drivers…ALL OF EM!
[QUOTE=c.captain;141610]what needs to be asked is if it is a catastrophic buss failure…how did that occur? What combination of failures would cause that? There are circuit breakers to protect a buss from surge overcurrent. There are overspeed trips on the generator prime movers. It does not appear that anyone commanded too much power too quickly since the vessel was still out in the open water and even if somehow a control was accidentally pushed down hard, the logic in the controls should prevent pulling too much power from the generators. Reverse current would fry a generator but there were four total…all four could not blow up on reverse current. There is no reason all four gens should have been online in any event. That is not how these vessels operate.
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?
.[/QUOTE]
Words from the bridge. Try looking at it from the engineer’s standpoint. If you were in the engine room and just had a switchboard explode right next to you for no known reason then you would probably very hesitant to just bring another generator online, especially when the vessel is not in immediate danger and there are other assets nearby. Even with redundant busses and switchgear the original problem has to be identified and isolated before power can safely be restored.
And $1.8 million to replace that much outdated 4160V switchgear ain’t that bad.
Now the interesting part of the article is the neutral reference and bonding of the neutral to the ground. Grounding is a highly misunderstood subject. Most electricians know to follow NEC but things get all mucked up on marine installations. You get funky combinations of bonded and unbonded neutrals. The trouble is, incorrect installations usually render fault indicating systems inoperative but in a way that shows everything being normal.
Trust me in the most recent 6 newbuild tugs I have been on, not one has been wired properly.
not in immediate danger? they had to let go an anchor to try to not drift ashore! They’re damned lucky it was summer and it wasn’t blowing. What if the vessel was in true danger? Stand there with your thumb up your ass playing it safe!
Even with redundant busses and switchgear the original problem has to be identified and isolated before power can safely be restored.
and how long does it take to examine the system to determine the the #1 board is intact, the #1 #2 generators are fine and the tie breakers between the two switchboards are open? 5 minutes tops. That’s for competent engineers however, for WSF engineers, I guess the number if more like 5 hours! Afterall, it takes a longtime to read a whole newspaper from front to back. I wonder if they have internet in the controlrooms of the WSF ferries now…afterall, maintaining your fantasy football team or managing an investment portfolio is very time consuming.
And $1.8 million to replace that much outdated 4160V switchgear ain’t that bad.
where is it reported that ALL the switchgear needs replacing? How many vessels work their entire lives with old outmoded equipment? All it needs is to be made to work but I suppose the WSF needs to make the system “engineer proof”…we all know how good they are maintaining electrical systems!
Now the interesting part of the article is the neutral reference and bonding of the neutral to the ground. Grounding is a highly misunderstood subject. Most electricians know to follow NEC but things get all mucked up on marine installations. You get funky combinations of bonded and unbonded neutrals. The trouble is, incorrect installations usually render fault indicating systems inoperative but in a way that shows everything being normal.
the TACOMA is 17 years old! if there are flaws inherent to the electrical design, they should have been identified and corrected in 17years.
Trust me in the most recent 6 newbuild tugs I have been on, not one has been wired properly.
see comment above…this is not a new vessel with new equipment…competent engineers would have known about such problems in the system and would have known how to get the vessel operating again. They are IDIOT bus drivers…ALL OF EM!
Steamer…you’re an engineer. Help me out to shut this apologist for the WSF clown circus down…
[QUOTE=87cr250r;148190]
Trust me in the most recent 6 newbuild tugs I have been on, not one has been wired properly.[/QUOTE]
I started to think Siemens needed to look closer to home for releasing a system they described as being a faulty design but then I found out who designed the things … one of the State employed weenies in the same office that designed the passenger terminal bridge that was too short to reach the ferry.
I won’t mention any names, he is on LinkedIn but might remove this bit of his resume before the smoke clears:
[I]Electrical Section Supervisor
Washington State Ferries
1991 – 1998 (7 years)Greater Seattle Area
"Electrical Section PE for WSF Vessel Design.
Developed complete electrical design package, including State-of-the-Art Cycloconverter propulsion design, for the Jumbo MkII ferries. Oversaw electrical design group for all new design, modifications, refurbishments, and maintenance of WSF ferry electrical systems.
Acted as Owner’s Representative and as liaison to the WSF Operating Engineers during design development and factory testing for all equipment for the JM2 ferries design and new construction period."[/I]
Hey it took me five years to find the problems on four of the boats. The problems disguised themselves as normally functioning systems.
Where it gets real tricky is when you have to take a boat that has been working “just fine” for five years, fix the systems to your own standards, then all of the sudden there are a bunch of faults on the boat. Yeah, it doesn’t matter who you work for try explaining that to any owner.
And seriously, have you ever tried calling a company rep with a serious question? You may as well be asking a Ferguson looter what the problem with welfare is. I gave up on Rolls. I have two superstars up north with the real answers.
And I am not defending anybody here. In fact, read the root cause analysis and the letter from DEI Consultants at the end. The consultant specifically admits to his ignorance about marine systems yet this is the company they are going to trust for their advice. In so many cases it’s not the operator or the shipyards fault when problems arise. It’s scoundrel contractors. The trouble is, you hire a contractor when you don’t have the tools or knowledge to do the work yourself. That often means that when the contractor makes an error you might not have the knowledge to recognize he error, especially when everything appears to look normal.
[QUOTE=87cr250r;148235] The consultant specifically admits to his ignorance about marine systems yet this is the company they are going to trust for their advice. In so many cases it’s not the operator or the shipyards fault when problems arise. It’s scoundrel contractors. The trouble is, you hire a contractor when you don’t have the tools or knowledge to do the work yourself. That often means that when the contractor makes an error you might not have the knowledge to recognize he error, especially when everything appears to look normal.[/QUOTE]
That pretty much sums up WSF and its in-house collection of incompetents. I wonder if Siemens just mailed them a box of parts and left it to the wizards of 2nd Ave and the club of “staff chief” geniuses to make it work.
You have to admit that the capacity margins were pretty substantial for the system to last this long. Luck had a great deal to do with it but at some point someone should have noticed that the surge limiters were undersized and must surely have been smoking from time to time. What gets me is that no one knew how to turn a voltmeter switch or thought it might be a good idea to check after getting the high voltage alarm.
Well, one head rolled but probably for the wrong reason.
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2025080912_ferriesfiredxml.html
By Mike Lindblom
Seattle Times transportation reporter
Steve Rodgers was ferry system operations director.
Steve Rodgers was ferry system operations director.
READER COMMENTS
HIDE / SHOW COMMENTS
Gotta love working for the state. Over budget tunnel - no problem. Years late on a bridge - no problem. Total… (November 22, 2014) MORE
I wonder if a crusty old guy with four+ decades of ferries experience (starting out as blue-collar) was a little too… (November 22, 2014) MORE
Why not make it a clean sweep and fire Lynn Peterson? The ferry system has fallen apart under Jay Inslee ? it may be… (November 22, 2014) MORE
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The operations director for the state ferry system — who has been on paid administrative leave and under investigation since July after being reprimanded — has been fired.
Steve Rodgers, who was reprimanded in July after State Transportation Secretary Lynn Peterson accused him of treating her disrespectfully, confirmed late Saturday that the department ended his employment on Thursday.
Rodgers had worked for Washington State Ferries for 42 years…
[QUOTE=renoun;148476]Rodgers had worked for Washington State Ferries for 42 years… [/QUOTE]
and I am sure he is getting every penny promised for his retirement…doesn’t matter what you do to whom or the bonehead decision you make as the WSF, you are going to cash out very nicely in the end
I’ve seen Tacoma sailing on sea trials several times in the last week. Guess they may have concluded repairs.
Tacoma went cold iron during the Friday afternoon commute. Guess things weren’t completely fixed.
The 4:40 p.m. run leaving Seattle’s Colman Dock was canceled, and the 5:30 p.m. boat turned away walk-on riders after filling to its Coast Guard-allowed capacity of 1,100 passengers. Car drivers were also delayed, and some walk-ons detoured onto boats to Bremerton.
[snip]
Ferry workers have not determined a cause for Tacoma’s loss of power. It lost propulsion but didn’t run into anything — nearby tugs came over to help, said Harris. “It appears to have something to do with the drive motors,” she said at 6:24 p.m.
The stalled ferry, which was pulled into the Seattle harbor by tugboats, will remain out of service until the problem is repaired, Harris said. There were 506 people and 140 cars on board, she added.
[QUOTE=renoun;161849]Tacoma went cold iron during the Friday afternoon commute. Guess things weren’t completely fixed.[/QUOTE]
these PHUCKING PHOOLS simply do not have the ability to learn. This is what you get when everyone at the WSF is bred out of an incestual relationship.
Looks like those PNW Union engineers sure know how to run their boat. I mean diesel electric AC drives aren’t rocket science…or maybe it is for some folks…
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161858]Looks like those PNW Union engineers sure know how to run their boat. I mean diesel electric AC drives aren’t rocket science…or maybe it is for some folks…[/QUOTE]
you seem to be under the mistaken conclusion that just because mariners belong to a union that I believe them superior to non union mariners…FAR FROM THE TRUTH SIR! The WSF mariners are the equivalent of slugs in our industry. Pathetically slow moving creatures of little worth other than to sit on their fat asses.
Never heard what happened but I was happy to return her home yesterday
I saw Westerns tugs on the TV news taking the ferry home. Sharp boats and sharp crews!
What a coupla know it alls, solving problems they do not have the details of. Are you two trying to impress us all with your vast knowledge?
I was the operator of the Sealth when the Tacoma broke down. Capt. Anderson dropped anchor as was appropriate but was less than half a boat length from the dry beach and less than that to grounding depth. That is why he was concerned about grounding while on the hook.
When it all unfolded, I was east bound 5-10min away, which made me the closest vessel that could provide aid. So I diverted to assist her. We deployed our emergency towline and kept a tight line to hold her away from the beach until tugs arrived.
Do you have a problem with that?
I’m new to this site. I hope it isn’t filled with numb nut commentary as I’ve seen so far, ALL the time.
I thought the TACOMA was able to get the hook down?[/QUOTE]
Numb nut commentary is one of the many services we provide here.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;162024]Numb nut commentary is one of the many services we provide here.[/QUOTE]
and on top of that, we are consummate professionals here as opposed to certain overpaid floating bus drivers with a proclivity to go blackship, blow up motors and switchgear, lose count of how many POB there are, crash into docks at high speed, ground showing girlfriends their waterfront houses up close, run over sailboats and my personal favorite, ground going around the wrong end of an island!
Wow these guys sound like legends I had no idea how prolific they were.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;162028]Wow these guys sound like legends I had no idea how prolific they were.[/QUOTE]
now you know why I hold all of these sterling characters in such high esteem! They can’t even drive a vessel back and forth endlessly on the same route without fucking getting lost. Perish that they should ever have to leave the safe and sheltered waters of Puget Sound! INBREEDS ALL OF EM!
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