Oh, how true this all is

Professional Mariner Forum
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a floating embarrassment of pitiful neglect

[B]Rust, ferries and money[/B]

Bruce Buls June 5, 2014

About a month ago, just after Mother’s Day, a Seattle newspaper columnist, Knute Berger, aka Mossback, wrote a piece deploring visible rust on our local ferries. “Welcome to Seattle,” he wrote in Crosscut, a daily online publication, “home of the rust-bucket.”

“Our fleet increasingly seems to resemble something put afloat by what, the Albanian navy?”


Exposed rust on Washington State Ferries’ M/V Chelan.

He’s right about the rust, but he’s wrong about the solution, which to him is as simple as a bucket of paint and a paintbrush.

I, too, find the highly visible rust on Washington State Ferries embarrassing. A few years ago, I drove north to British Columbia to do a story about BC Ferries’ newest boats, which had just been built in Germany. On the way home from Vancouver Island, I rode between Sidney, British Columbia, and Anacortes, Wash., on the Chelan, an IMO-certified ferry. It looked terrible. (See photo at left). Given my ride to the island on the gleamingly new BC boat, the shabby appearance was especially stark.

But the solution isn’t as simple as handing a deckhand a paint brush and a bucket of paint. Or hiring street people to do the work, as one commenter suggested.

The solution is money. Putting a 460’ vessel in drydock so the old paint and rust can be safely blasted off and recovered, properly primed and painted is extremely expensive, as Washington Secretary of Transportation Lynn Peterson pointed out in her reply to Berger’s article: “For a Jumbo Mark II ferry like the 202-car Tacoma that Mossback rode, a paint job costs more than $7 million dollars and takes up to four months during which the vessel is out of service.”

Berger also characterized the rust as “Eyman’s eczema,” which is a clever play on words that is also reasonably accurate. Tim Eyman is a local conservative political activist known for his anti-tax initiatives. One such initiative eliminated the state’s vehicle excise tax, which had provided steady funding for ferries and other public transportation projects.

As a frequent ferry rider myself, I’m not always happy with the condition of the boats and the helpfulness of the crews, but the dependability is good and the safety is excellent.

At the same time, I am very happy that WSF’s newest ferry, the just-built (and freshly painted) Tokitae will soon go into service on my run between Clinton and Mukilteo. With space for 144 vehicles, the big Toke will help reduce loading area congestion and present a much more appealing face to the public.

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All well and good for you to say. You aren’t paying for it.

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Question, On this subject. Ive never worked on a ferry, I take it theres night and day crews, So who’s is reasonable for the general maintenance on the vessel? painting, deck work, or keeping things and clean on larger ferries like this? Or do they just wait till shipyard time.

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… the Chelan, an IMO-certified ferry.

Wow, I didn’t know WSF was using certified organic ferries these days. Must be why the paint doesn’t stick.

http://www.imo.ch/logicio/pmws/indexDOM.php?client_id=imo&page_id=about&lang_iso639=en

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Here’s a link to Knute’s original column at Crosscut. He’s a longtime journalist and curmudgeon who I trust way more than most of the folks writing for the dominant local paper

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Four months for painting a 420’ ferry seems quite a long time…

Couple of years ago, the news reported that one of our ferries had been fixed with duct tape. Sure, the same ship experienced a rudder failure shortly before that article was published, but I still call it a quiet day in the news. Around here, the ferries are usually out of service for one week per year, during which time a few thousand workers will carry out all kinds of maintenance (I have also been there, grit-blasting the car decks). Of course, instead of painting the whole ship over they often just wash it with Metal Brite and repair only the worst rust damage. The regular crews don’t usually have time to fix anything while the ship is underway, so some shipping companies hire extra workers (often old-timers with experience from “dirty” deck work) for the summer months. For example, this summer my dad (retiree since 2004) is slowly working his way through hundreds of windows on a big ferry, removing rust, repainting and re-sealing at a rate of about three windows per day. He’s also complaining that today’s deck hands are not interested in doing such physically demanding work because most of them have a degree from the maritime school and are waiting for a officer position on another vessel…

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4 months and 7 million dollars to paint a ferry? Hehehehe bullshit!

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Tim Eyman…that crooked m-effer.

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Its a government contract. $2 million to paint the ferry and $5 million to do the paperwork. One month to paint it and three months for all the safety meetings.

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[QUOTE=Kraken;138669]4 months and 7 million dollars to paint a ferry? Hehehehe bullshit![/QUOTE]

This only goes to show how the WSF is one of the most inefficiently run maritime operations ever. Government cannot run vessels nearly as cost effectively as the private sector and I have always said that the running of the WSF fleet should go to a commercial contractor much as MSC turns many of its vessels over to the private sector to run. The State owns the vessels and facilities but run the vessels commercially and I bet the operating deficits go away real fast.

Oh but how the ferry crews would howl to actually be made to work for their pay! File a protest with the union! Bunch of effing layabouts!

Somebody pray tell me how other ferries look in the US? Staten Island say or Cape May or North Carolina or Nantuket? Certainly those boats cannot be as pitifully maintained as the WSF fleet? I know the BC ferries are all very nicely maintained as mentioned in the original article by Bruce Buls. There is also the COHO in Port Angeles. A old ship which always is very clean and well maintained.

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Chelan is in tough shape so is the Hyak, when I was on there a few weeks ago there was not 1 wsf worker in sight cleaning or doing anything for the 1hr ride.

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[QUOTE=Quimby;138672]Tim Eyman…that crooked m-effer.[/QUOTE]

as much as I loathe that selfserving political cretin, I don’t believe the taxpayers should subsidize the operation of the ferries. Yes, build them with capitalized funds not needing an ROI but run and maintain them only on the revenue they generate. The average Joe who rarely if ever uses the Ferry System need not provide them funds through elevated car registration fees. If it can’t be supported on its revenues then it is mismanaged.

Hell give me a $1M contract to paint a ferry and I will put a riding crew aboard to scale, sandblast, prime and paint one while it is still operating. I will have a special truck with a mobile canvas screen which would go up with hydraulically operated poles. Up and down in under 5 minutes plus a large vac system to capture all dust and rust scale. Yes, certain areas of the car decks will have to be blocked off in order to do this, but a boat never need be out of service and I will do it for much less than Vigor or any other yard on the Sound.

Just use your little tiny brains there WSF management…there now, you see that you can do it!

.

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95% of the states residents don’t use the ferries. Over here on the east side of the state we just got hit with a raise in vehicle registration to pay for the new ferry. The ferry system is a real sore spot for people outside the Seattle area

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[QUOTE=brjones;138689]95% of the states residents don’t use the ferries. Over here on the east side of the state we just got hit with a raise in vehicle registration to pay for the new ferry. The ferry system is a real sore spot for people outside the Seattle area[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but what would it cost to build a 12 lane freeway to Port Angeles from Seattle with branches off to every town along the way?

One problem with WSF is the bunker mentality of the occupants of 2901. They far outnumber the crews, seem to take no responsibility for really stupid decisions, and mostly duplicate what other State employees do in other State offices.

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[QUOTE=brjones;138689]The ferry system is a real sore spot for people outside the Seattle area[/QUOTE]

count me as one of them!

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[QUOTE=Steamer;138693]One problem with WSF is the bunker mentality of the occupants of 2901. They far outnumber the crews, seem to take no responsibility for really stupid decisions, and mostly duplicate what other State employees do in other State offices.[/QUOTE]

the only thing I will give WSF management credit for is at least the boats aren’t crashing into the docks destroying then two or three times a year like not too long ago!

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[QUOTE=c.captain;138675]This only goes to show how the WSF is one of the most inefficiently run maritime operations ever. Government cannot run vessels nearly as cost effectively as the private sector and I have always said that the running of the WSF fleet should go to a commercial contractor much as MSC turns many of its vessels over to the private sector to run. .[/QUOTE]

Yeah, just like the efficient MSC contracted operators Bay Ship Mgmt? That worked out real well…

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[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;138792]Yeah, just like the efficient MSC contracted operators Bay Ship Mgmt? That worked out real well…[/QUOTE]

allright, I’ve concede that one as well as Sea Mobility, IMC and all the other bottom feeder operators that ran the T-AGS and T-AGOS ships for MSC. What’s up with the ships these days? Split between Maersk and 3PSC?

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[QUOTE=c.captain;138793]allright, I’ve concede that one as well as Sea Mobility, IMC and all the other bottom feeder operators that ran the T-AGS and T-AGOS ships for MSC. What’s up with the ships these days? Split between Maersk and 3PSC?[/QUOTE]

I honestly have not heard of those first 2. Which ever contract Horizon Lines (not sure tags or tagos) had in middle part of last decade did not go well in terms of them being able to keep MMP and MEBA billets filled and many times could not leave port because of manning issues. They were in hot water more than once with MSC for failure to abide by the contract. I don’t know if they ever got fined. I do believe they had no interest in re bidding at the end of 5 yrs. I think it was 3PSC, but not sure. Can’t imagine those things will run for much longer, but who knows. What are they, almost 40yrs old?

i was on the USNS Gordon not long after Patriot took over from Bay Ship Mgmt (they had Gordon, Gilliland, and I believe the Yano and Shugart).

What a neglected POS Patriot had on their hands. The Gililand was even worse.

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[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;138795]I honestly have not heard of those first 2. [/QUOTE]

they were way before your time but so was Bay Shipmanagement…how is it that you know about their criminal enterprise

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I worked for MSC back when Ronnie Raygun and his Buds came up with the famed “A-76” program that created the business opportunity for all those operators to get a camel’s nose under the tent. I suppose the money from the ships turned over was just a drop in the spending bucket compared to all the DoD base services, facilities and programs now run by contractors instead of Guvv’ermint employees. Now perhaps at MSC as CIVMARS, we got paid better wages than anything offered by A 76 operators, so that was a savings, but what about all the rest …

One really has to look at the structure of the ship operating / management contracts to see what was paid for by MSC, and what was supposed to come out of the hide of the operators (Bay Ship / DynCorp / whoever).

Lots of complicated steps and interests at play there. Not to mention opportunities to profit by not doing things that were paid to be done but not likely to be detected.

i could never figure out why the TAGOS / TAGS / etc. went to a company that had to set up an operation from scratch (and get paid for it). What gov’t money was actually saved instead of just saying to MSC go ahead, crew and operate the ships, add the crews and a few port engineers and be done with it?

It is all complicated, with the operators, their lobbyists at play in DC, and District 2 / SIU looking for dues at the time (MSC was MEBA D1), but it seems like somebody got the mine, and the rest of us got the shaft.

As for the Fst PrePo ships, the diesel conversions were over-complicated ships sent out to sit for years at anchor. Really too bad all that money was spent on conversion of slow speeds instead of just building something new with gas turbines a la NASSCO. Sure they had a lot of really cool gear (I loved working on the cranes and crane control setups at build), and a lot of firms made some serious coin along the way, me included.

Then there was that hare-brained scheme to convert the BLASCO / Ukrainian RoRo’s at government expense, all intended to benefit some operator.

After a week of looking around the ships and taking one out on a test run, I remember telling all the ExSpurts flat out the proposed conversions would run way over budget and take way too long. They were buying poorly maintained scrap metal that looked big and had car decks. Big deal. Well, that turned out plenty well, for someone. C. Captain, was that TAL Icelandic guy involved in that deal some how? I seem to remember seeing him on board …but ti was a long time ago.

Last I was aboard the Gordon / Gilliland / Shugart conversions was perhaps 1998, but they were still pretty newly converted then and were kept up. The Newport News conversions were much better done and more extensive for sure.

I suppose the money ran thin for a while and the original operators just bailed…leaving the next one to belly up to the trough to deal with it. Or gloss it over and keep the government checks coming until the contract ran out…

I drifted away from that sector a while back and lost track of whatever was going on, but it is fun to hear about it. Talk about wrecks, I am laughing to hear the [I]Cape Ray / Race / Rise[/I] are still hovering around in some form. I remember the crews fondly, good fellows all of them. But if that is the best equipment we have to offer for processing chemical weapons, holy cow…