Probably not. Mass managed to shut down that little “side gig” for Texas back in the early 2000’s when they cried to MARAD that “Prep cadets” didn’t have MMC’s (not sure about details beyond that, but I suspect the argument was that they technically could be considered passengers) and weren’t actual cadets that were pursuing a license.
FEMA was the rationale. When they kept taking the training ships for emergency response they realized there could be a newer ship With better setup.
For (SUNY) cruises it seems to be a mix of fresh graduates for deck work and retirees/regular school staff from all over for instruction. A lot of the watchstanders and returning deck maintenance/dayworking mates seem to be MMP.
When it comes to activations they always go AMO. I don’t think there has been one time in the past 25+ years where the vessel was crewed for disaster relief where it wasn’t AMO/SIU.
Again, speaking solely for SUNY.
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BC, I get the FEMA angle (which still doesn’t justify that many new NMSV training ships, especially when there are so many MARAD ships sitting around doing nothing year round); I don’t get the angle of anybody being able to complain that they aren’t getting enough FED FUNDS, or that a new state school will take away from their piece of the federal pie.
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“Specially Trained Ordinary Seaman.” Nothing new, I worked on ships that had that change to the COI… in 1985. Only thing “new” is RFPNW provided an answer to the constant question, WTF is a “specially trained” OS?
Not even going to try to understand that rabbit hole of deceit and chicanery. Seems to me that the state schools are already overcharging ‘tuition’ for training cruises. Don’t they even charge the cadets same thing if they are on a real ship instead of school ship? At least that’s what I was told the other day by some new grad from a state school. If anybody has details, I’m all ears.
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South Carolina is not alone:
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That is some interesting news Mr. Cavo. I read the link & it didn’t mention anything about USCG licensing? Is that supposed to come later if the first program is successful? Also, at least 6 marine related companies have their logos on top of the page so I would guess it won’t only be the State of Louisiana & students funding the endeavor? Good for those people & our industry.
Yup. In ‘97 when I sailed commercial, the only fee I was able to successfully contest was the “library use fee.” I suspect they’ve figured out ways to shut down any contesting of fees though these days.
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Those MARAD ships can’t house the amount of people the training ships can, which is why they choose those ones for disaster response even with their limited cargo capacity.
If you add in a new academy where is the extra money going to come from? They’re gonna pony up the money for a new academy without pulling money from elsewhere? Whether that’s MARAD RRF money or Academy money or whatever, it has to come from somewhere to fund a new school spitting out officers we don’t need. No one is starving for work in any of the 3 officer unions. As was previously said we need a better pipeline for unlicensed ratings/hawsepiping.
What is it you don’t understand?
Can’t speak for anywhere other than Mass but my commercial cruise was cheaper than a sea term. Plus, you make $33 a day (!) which can pay for some of the price.
Why is tuition in quotes?
Quotes…. Guess I just can’t correlate ‘tuition’ being charged for being on a ship, especially on a commercial ship. Here kid…. go to M/V COMMERCE, do your sea project, you’ll learn what to do on board from all the license and unlicensed alike. We will grade your papers when you get back and decide how you did….. And charge you tuition???
I know KP is free but the state schools aren’t. They aren’t getting 100% federal funding so it’s gotta come from somewhere.
That’s how every college works, is that foreign to you?? KP didn’t grade your papers?
If you go to SUNY Plattsburgh and write a paper, do you expect that they will grade it and give you a diploma for free?? Or do you still have to pay tuition? So why would SUNY Maritime be different?
- YES, it is foreign, as I clearly didn’t go to college.
- IT’S NOT FREE, probably never has been.
- Once again, why are the state schools getting any FEDERAL FUNDS at all? Yes, I’m sure that it’s in the CFRs somewhere, and it should be gutted. And yes, I’m sure someone chimes in KP, blah blah blah. If that place goes, it probably ALL goes, along with MSP, then we are left scrambling to work in the Cajun Navy, coastwise tankers, etc., wages plummet, etc.
- NO, KP didn’t grade my sea project. They (and MARAD) didn’t actually expect me to go to sea so what’s the point of determining what I might have learned at sea…..I just figured I’d do it anyway because I did in fact sign a contract.
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So you have no understanding of how college works?? You been living under a fuckin rock for 60 years??
Since when does KP charge tuition? That’s a new one, no one’s ever told me that.
Because they churn out federally licensed officers, sailing on federal Training ships. A lot of colleges get federal funding for a variety of things. This isn’t a novel concept, why is it such a shock to you?
Did you hawsepipe? What contract did you sign?
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- A contract is signed with MARAD and USNR. It should be publicly available on line. Maybe go look up the actual DOT/MARAD service obligation. I’m operating off a phone, otherwise I’d post it right here. I keep my copy at home. Called those clowns up the moment I satisfied year 5 and made sure I was confirmed as having satisfied all requirements and was released of my obligation.
- Once again, it is not free. You still have to pay for whatever it is they want you to pay for, you don’t get a choice. Doesn’t really matter whether they’re calling tuition or haircuts or laptops. The $3000 to $4000 my parents had to pay for year one was a LOT of money for them at the time.
- I don’t try to educate you on how SUNY PLATSBURGH works, so do me a favor and don’t try to educate me on KP.
- Never went to college, no masters degree, no kids, NOT 60 yrs old, so no, don’t know shit about college. Whatever I do know came from watching PCU and Animal House.
- Massive federal funding for state schools who can’t survive without it is clearly part of the problem. Federal Govt is nothing but a fucking massive jobs program and money laundering operation at this point.
- My take on the unlicensed shortage might be a little different than yours, especially OSs (leading to ABs). The USCG approved gutting manning in the 80s, and now some of the jobs in the commercial fleet we have now are purely a function of CBA’s. Losing 36 OS billets on LMSRs is very tough over the next year and is bad for both SIU and SUP. It’s already hard enough for those guys to get enough OS time as it is. I don’t know about the newer MLL G class, but the older ones (UTAH, WYOMING, WISCONSIN) only required 3 ABs as per COI. 900ft, 3 ABs. Lunacy. STWD dept USCG ratings don’t even exist anymore, CBAs and visa requirements are the only thing keeping Americans in the galley. A ship is only going to get so many STOs approvals on their COI, so that’s not a solution. I think the unlicensed pipeline/ hawsepiper pipeline problem is very heavily skewed towards the deck side because the elusive billet that is OS. I don’t know the ins and outs of all the contracts, but it looks to me like over 75% or more of all OS billets on US ships are on MSC active ships commercial contracted and regular MSC (not MARAD). We clearly can’t count on those billets being there as MSC laying up some their ships and MARAD is taking over lots of LMSRs (BOB HOPES AND WATSONS) Those OSs are often roadblocked initially by a bunch of MSC classes. IMO, a lack of training (federally funded/subsidized or not) centers/schools OR a shortage of available young/youngish people is NOT the problem, but rather the limited ‘bankable’ opportunities to make it to AB limited/unlimited in a reasonable timeframe that make it worthwhile. The way it’s going these days, it may very well make more sense to go into debt and get a 3/m license in 4 yrs and make more money sooner. The FEDERAL GOVT has allowed the USCG to bend to operator’s demands and handcuff upward mobility for the unlicensed, especially OSs.
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Cruise is a class. Cadet Observer is a class. In my day, a 6 credit class.
Classes cost money. There’s a price per credit for any class, and this one is the same.
That’s why they have to pay for cruise. And Cadet Observer.
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Good thing they get that nice 0% loan from the bank on campus then.
Roger that, Tks for the info.
I don’t know anything about that. I never took out any loans there. I think USAA made cheap APR loans accessible to seniors. Low APR back then was probably 7-10%. I cannot imagine any Financial Institutions giving out 0% APR loans back then. Lots of new cars in the 1/C Parking Lot, but I didn’t have one. Only money I ever made was cadet wages and wknd cash jobs on Long Island.