WWII Navy ship wrecks disappeared from Java seabedto


#1

Recently it was found that the wrecks of two of Dutch cruisers – HNLMS De Ruyter and HNLMS Java – had completely disappeared. A large piece of a third Dutch ship, HNLMS Kortenaer, has also vanished. More than 1150 Dutch sailors went down with the ships. The sites were officially declared as war graves and as such not to be touched. The ships sank in 1942 and the wrecks were discovered in 2002.

Shortly after, the British ministry of defence confirmed that HMS Exeter and HMS Encounter had also disappeared, with much of a third vessel – HMS Electra – gone as well. Furthermore a US submarine, the USS Perch, is also missing. This ship sank unmanned and the crew was taken as prisoners.

(Photo removed per posters request)

The disappearance is probably due to illegal ship looters and scavengers, often disguising as fishermen. The Indonesian government was quick to announce that they refuse to accept any responsibility for the missing ship wrecks. It seemed to have gone unnoticed that thousand of tons of scrap iron and other metals, especially such as the very valuable huge bronze propellors, were probably landed at the port of Surabaya and other ports on the north coast of Java. Fact is that the Indonesian archipelago is huge and hard and costly to patrol.

Meanwhile the matter is being investigated by the concerned parties but that will not bring back the ship wrecks nor the human remains. What remains are the empty hull imprints in the seafloor were once those ships rested.


#2

I hope those grave robbers get the bends far from a decompression chamber.


#3

An outrage, to be certain, but not unexpected and it seems inevitable now. A pox on all their houses!


#4

Lots of opinions, comments, and research by others about this [B][U]sad story[/U][/B] found at this link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/5dadwo/seven_shipwrecks_have_gone_missing_from_the/


#5

even if in very shallow water we are talking about a HUGE undertaking here with heavy lift cranes and many support vessels over these wrecks to raise the pieces of them and then transport them to scrappers. No way this could have happened without many hundreds of people actually employed on the projects which would have taken many years to complete. Obviously many high level officials in the Indonesian government also on the take to look the other way.

HIDEOUS!


#6

We did not see anything, and we are not involved.


#7

[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;192602]We did not see anything, and we are not involved.[/QUOTE]

I don’t believe you can translate the word “ethical” into any Asian language


#8

You got that 110% correct. Them grave digging low life son of a bitches looking from some white rice money that can’t find it ashore.


#9

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/26b3rq/plundered_remains_of_the_wreck_of_the_ijn_light/

According to IHS Maritime 360, the “HAI WEI GONG 889”, although manned by Chinese nationals, is operated by a Malaysian company, Rei Management Sdn. Bhd.

These men risked their lives and have given the ultimate sacrifice. To destroy their graves is absolutely disgusting.


#10

[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;192602]We did not see anything, and we are not involved.

[/QUOTE]

These are remains or part of, of the Dutch sub O-16. It is evident that the scavengers tactics is to blow a ship to pieces and then pick up the pieces with a crane until literally nothing is left. The picture shown above by DeepSeaDiver is more proof of this. These grave robbers donot only steal the sarcophagus but take away the pyramid is well. Nice…


#11

[QUOTE=c.captain;192603]I don’t believe you can translate the word “ethical” into any Asian language[/QUOTE]

There are many words for “Ethical” in Mandarin Chinese: http://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-chinese/ethics
Confucius Code of Ethics goes back some 2500 years: https://www.enotes.com/topics/confucian-ethics


#12

[QUOTE=ombugge;192614]There are many words for “Ethical” in Mandarin Chinese[/QUOTE]

I was being facetious you rube

don’t be an apologist for these ASSHOLES unless you want us to lump you in with them


#13

I am baffled by this news. It is unbelievable that major salvage operations have been carried out at these locations without anybody noticing. To break up a battle ship from an age when heavy steel was used to protect against torpedoes would be a major operation taking years to complete, even if a fleet of barges and dozens of divers were used. The salvaged steel must also have been sold somewhere,without anybody questioning the origin?

The Java Sea, Sunda Straits and South China Sea, where this activity has taken place, is heavily trafficked by ships of many nationalities and numerous fishing vessels are operating there.
There are oil and gas fields operated by foreign companies in the area, some within sight of these wreck sites.
Many of the wreck have been marked on navigation charts since WWII and have been visited on occasions by foreign dignitaries.

I have spent a lot of time in these waters over many years and did not see any such activity, or at least did not suspect that anything illegal was taking place under our noses.

If nothing else, the fishermen would have known where these wrecks were, even those not marked on any charts. Whether they would have report any activity to the authorities, or if that would have resulted in any action, is an open question, however.

Rei Group in Malaysia is Marketing Consultant; http://www.reigroup.com.my/
But you never know if they have a sideline in wreck robbery.


#14

The picture shown in post #9 MAY be from Malaysia and connected with this case: http://fairplay.ihs.com/article/12854/crane-detained-illegal-salvage
(Notice the Malaysian flag in the picture)

In any case, it is obviously not the first time that wreck robbery has been detected in the region: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2014/05/24/rm20mil-in-scrap-scooped-up-firm-plundered-tanjung-tuan-wreck-over-past-two-years/

That is not to say that the Hai Wei Gong 889 has been involved in stripping the wrecks in the Java Sea, but this report from 2013 indicate that she was active in the Sunda Strait, stripping the HMAS Perth wreck: http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/7115-hmas-perth-wwii-warship-grave-stripped-by-salvagers/

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[QUOTE=c.captain;192615]I was being facetious you rube

don’t be an apologist for these ASSHOLES unless you want us to lump you in with them[/QUOTE]

Don’t lump billions of Asians in with the wreck robbers. There are unethical people everywhere, as you well know.
That would be too simplistic for a man of impeccable ethics like you.


#15

[QUOTE=ombugge;192616]I am baffled by this news. It is unbelievable that major salvage operations have been carried out at these locations without anybody noticing.[/QUOTE]

of course people noticed but they didn’t care as I would expect very little if any sympathy from Asians regarding the sanctity of a wargrave or that any remains of the dead might trump the power of money to be made for the salvage of the metals. of course, there were many on the take as well for them to say nothing and you notice now how Indonesian “officials” are disavowing any responsibility. there will be no charges made against or prosecutions of anyone in this case and soon it will disappear unless somehow the Dutch or Brits can bring some pressure to bear against Indonesia or Malaysia (the HMS PRINCE OF WALES and the HMS REPULSE have also been heavily demolished) however this isn’t a big enough deal for either country to try very hard (unless the populations in both the UK and the Netherlands howl and then maybe some actions will be taken to pressure the pilferers to be brought to justice). This is just business in a land where money is religion.

[QUOTE=ombugge;192617]Don’t lump billions of Asians in with the wreck robbers. There are unethical people everywhere, as you well know.
That would be too simplistic for a man of impeccable ethics like you.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry if you don’t like me saying it but I have spent plenty of time in the Far East and my take is that Asians DON’T CARE about the environment, nature, human rights or anything else that doesn’t make them MONEY and NEVER HAVE

.


#16

[QUOTE=c.captain;192619]of course people noticed but they didn’t care as I would expect very little if any sympathy from Asians regarding the sanctity of a wargrave or that any remains of the dead might trump the power of money to be made for the salvage of the metals. of course, there were many on the take as well for them to say nothing and you notice now how Indonesian “officials” are disavowing any responsibility. there will be no charges made against or prosecutions of anyone in this case and soon it will disappear unless somehow the Dutch or Brits can bring some pressure to bear against Indonesia or Malaysia (the HMS PRINCE OF WALES and the HMS REPULSE have also been heavily demolished) [B]however this isn’t a big enough deal for either country to try very hard (unless the populations in both the UK and the Netherlands howl and then maybe some actions will be taken to pressure the pilferers to be brought to justice). This is just business in a land where money is religiën.[/B]

I am sorry if you don’t like me saying it but I have spent plenty of time in the Far East and my take is that Asians DON’T CARE about the environment, nature, human rights or anything else that doesn’t make them MONEY and NEVER HAVE

.[/QUOTE]

How true. As it happens a Dutch trade mission will visit Indonesia from november 21 - 24. Heading the mission is the minister-president, a cowardly person, cheat and a notorious liar. The Dutch are furious about the abuse and demand that he will tackle the problem when he is meeting with the Indonesian president Joko Widodo. I expect that he will not dare to mention the subject afraid as he is to jeopardize the trade mission which is of course much more important than some maritime sentiments for which he has no antenna or feeling at all. I am afraid that Western and Asian business minds work exactly in the same manner: money first. I will keep you posted!


#17

[QUOTE=c.captain;192619]
I am sorry if you don’t like me saying it but I have spent plenty of time in the Far East and my take is that Asians DON’T CARE about the environment, nature, human rights or anything else that doesn’t make them MONEY and NEVER HAVE.[/QUOTE]
That is a stereotyping and generalization that should be beneath you. I don’t think it is fair or rational to make such claims about a sweeping “ALL ASIANS”, which is more than half the world’s population.

The fact is that each Asian pollute far less than each American. China for one is doing a lot to clean up their act when it comes to the environment.

Caring about nature is something that all races and countries could do more about, but it is harder to do when you are struggling to feed your family. The rich countries in Asia are doing their bit though.

Human rights is a stick problem, with the standard falling in the so called “developed world”. Just look at the way refugees are being treated.

Again, there are people of all strips in Asia, as in the US. Whether greed is an Asian issue can be debated.


#18

[QUOTE=ombugge;192621]That is a stereotyping and generalization that should be beneath you. [/QUOTe]

Beneath me? As a highly opinionated commentator, I ain’t no paragon of equanimity and fairness…I calls em as I sees em and I see Asians as being selfish and greedy.

You should cease apologizing for them or trying to convince us they are pure as driven snow.

.


#19

[QUOTE=c.captain;192623]Beneath me? As a highly opinionated commentator, I ain’t no paragon of equanimity and fairness…i calls em as i see em and I see Asians as being selfish and greedy.

[B]You should cease apologizing for them or trying to convince us they are pure as driven snow.[/B][/QUOTE]

OK I’ll will, but only if you can convince me that Americans are.


#20

This threads starting to devolve…