As to your comment of not ever wanting to sail with said seafarer, a seaman is judged mostly by his actions not his words. Some of the best skillful and hardened professional seafarers anyone could sail with were chain smoking foul mouthed drunkards but who would pull off feats of seamanship and could steer a boat with their feet better than I could with my hands that I could only dream of being able to replicate.
1 Like
I have no idea who he is. I was pointing out his ridiculous comments. Iāve heard them before from other people using them as excuses why they couldnāt get a job or got passed over for some promotion. Skills aside, it is a different age we live in, for better or worse. Only a foolish company would tolerate someone with sexist or racist views onboard and open themselves to the threat of lawsuits for harassment or discrimination.
1 Like
3 watches on a sailboat would be very unusual.
I know one thing. Heās trolling for reactions and getting them. Itās like the Dice Man has taken up residency on this thread. Ohhhhh!
2 Likes
Women who are otherwise qualified for positions should, and do, get the positions they seek.
Iāve aleayd found it very telling that women in the industry rarely hawsepipe or work deck on workboats and tugs.
Companies LOVE filling diversity quotas (Seattle pier 23 anyone), its great PR. Women coming in the industry from the academies have their pick of companies, which are usually ocean going ships, the ferries, or nice assist tugs.
As an aside, there are two instances that come to mind where women sued their way to their job. One was at Foss (she eventually landed at Starlight) and Unit 1 with the SF pilots is/was a woman that sued for her job.
#metoo has destroyed relations, professional or otherwise, between the sexes. I have seen a few guys get canned over friendly chats to HR (always women) and I pay attention to these HR manuals. Hell, I remember the consideration of others training at WSF states that avoiding people, even for non work related reasons, was discrimination and grounds for punishment. Thatās insane-full stop.
I donāt know saltyseaman, though Iād like to get a drink with him.
#metoo has destroyed relations
Really? People speaking out about being sexually assaulted had destroyed relations? Here I was thinking it was the prevalence and pervasiveness of assault that was the problemā¦
3 Likes
You mean accusations without substance that never sees a trial that destroys a manās reputation, family, and career?
Women and men working together in this capacity is new relative to the millennia of human history. Itās not working well.
I figured you would have a topical, yet unrelated retort. And while Iām loathe to engage with trolling ignorance, Iām also bored.
So, no, I donāt mean āaccusations without substanceā, etcā¦
More so I mean the type of people who make comments like āmen and women working togetherā¦Itās not working well.ā Those are the comments one usually hears from someone whoās had their unwelcome advances rejected by a female coworker.
Maybe youāre right though. Probably shouldnāt let them vote or drive either, as thatās pretty ānew relative to the millennia of human historyā too.
I didnāt sail with too many women back in my day, but I certainly did sail with a few. For the most part, they were competent and fit in well. Even on smaller vessels. . I remember with Crowley, mates shared a cabin, regardless of gender. The few times I was onboard in this kind of situation, it worked. It does take a strong woman to deal with the highly masculine attitude on a vessel, much the same as it really just takes a strong person.
We all have our biases to some degree, the key is to be aware.
Iāve sailed with some C/Es and captains that were obviously biased against women and minorities. Paradoxically the people who are the most biased are often the ones that are least likely to discipline or fire someone.
Being biased makes it difficult to separate what action is legit and what is not. My observation is that these bigots are uncomfortable even discussing such matters because they worry the mask will slip and they will become victims of the so-called PC police for speaking what they consider to be the truth. Their own speech has to be carefully monitored for they consider what is acceptable true and what is unacceptable true.
People who are less biased donāt have to guard their speech and actions so carefully.
6 Likes
What I remember is being woken up, repeatedly, during my off watch to tie off lines for ship assists and tie the boat itself up because the girl they had on deck couldnāt do it. She could not physically do the work. I told the captain it was BS and not fair to me to lose precious sleep (6/6 watches) because she was unable to do the work. My hitch was up a few days later and when I came back she was gone.
I work on a different type of boat now with a few women crewmembers and they do a fine job. So there are positions available for them, the deck of an ocean going tugboat is not one of them.
1 Like
Back in the day this was the flying world. Now female pilots are utterly routine.
Re the deck girl who could not tie the boat up - I assume a male crewmember who likewise could not handle a dock line would also be shitcanned?
1 Like
My observation is that women will often outwork the men.
They generally have to outwork the men to get accepted. I first sailed with women as radio operators, a job that at a time there was much more physical strength required in the other duties onboard ship they were well suited to.
A problem occurred on one ship where the female third mate was judged to be unsafe on her own at night in a third world port doing a cargo watch. The mate had to cover for her.
I think that the security in container ports and the advances in cargo handling have made the industry more gender neutral today.
As some in this forum have advanced there are still a handful of jobs where because of the physicality involved by the deck crew and junior officer positions it is difficult for the majority of women to advance up to the position where The heaviest thing one picks up is a pencil.
A contractor I know said that the reason he would not employ a woman, even though the woman was the finest back hoe or bulldozer driver in the world was because of the guy he employed to hand dig a trench where machinery could not access.
Given that the guys he employed to do the job were six pickhandles and a plug of tobacco across the shoulders, he rightly judged that they would be unhappy that they would never get their butt in the cab of anything .
I firmly believe in horses for courses.
As a progressive thought leader you have become good at self-censure and enjoy the Orwellianesque 1984 PC mind control society where all biological and neurological differences are ignored. The bigots hiding unacceptable thoughts must be ferreted out I suppose.
However I have seen the phenomenon of ācosmopolitanā progressive mates being the ones who have hit on females w/o being encouraged by them and then when scorned accusing the females of very low morals and subpar work performance as a result.
Exactly when did bigotry or sexist behavior begin to signify which side of the aisle you sit on? Why does everything have to boil down to progressive versus conservative in some peopleās minds? There are shitty people on both sides regardless of their political viewpoints
5 Likes
Biology =/= technology.
It is objectively true that as women have entered the workforce sexual harassment claims ticked up. Upwards of 30% of the EEOC claims are sex discrimination and of those ~79% are sexual harassment claims.
Itās telling that along that same timeline that single parenthood (usually motherhood) has correlated with it. It is objectively bad for children to be raised by one parent, the effects of which resonate their whole lives-particularly in their professional lives. These women are being raised without any realistic expectations of their abilities, roles, or capacities.
That is dangerous.
Women arenāt men, the push to put them on par with men is dangerous for everyone.
Further, the rates of false rape (bear with it) accusations are upwards of 10%. The bar for sexual harassment is usually much lower, not a criminal proceeding, and is followed by a PR stunt by HR departments (usually filled with women) to terminate the accused with no recourse, potentially destroying the accusedās name, reputation, and future career prospects.
10% is staggeringly high.
1 Like
This is true, Clinton did a lot to promote womenās rights and the feminist agenda, supporting Roe V Wade, appointing more women to high level administration positions then any other President, etc., buttttttt he also pursued an affair with a 22 year old intern.
It really doesnāt matter what side of the aisle someone sits on, people from all political backgrounds and beliefs have flaws.
There are strong women and weak men as well as the other way around. If there is a job requiring someone to pick up an object that weighs 100 pounds and move it 20 feet, have the job interview consist of moving the 100 pound object 20 feet and anyone, male, female, tranny, or undecided that can move it is hired and if you canāt, you canāt.
Pick your next deck crew:
- actually this is an issue with women trying to race yachts as a profession. Strength and weight are not factors for the top jobs on the boat, but the usual way in at the bottom is being a grinder/human ballast where a heavy strong guy has an advantage.
2 Likes
I agree, this is especially true given the fact that federal law and company policy donāt take into account what a particular personās views are. My views are aligned with company policy and federal law. In any case action taken contrary would be at my own legal peril.
3 Likes