What I’m saying is this: base for the ship size is for a job with the union according to tonnage and horsepower. The base for a master was ( at one time, not sure now) was 140,500. However the ship you may be sailing on showed the masters pay of 170,500. Due to the lower cap the master would not get the higher rate but the DOD rate. He would also get some OT, but not much. When the pay cap came in any pay over the aggregate was not paid. Basically what you see advertised on the web site for payment in some cases is not the pay one would receive with msc. In fact, look at the website. There is an *. Look at the bottom of the page and it tells you the rate of pay is level IV of the executive schedule… Meaning you don’t get that pay as Master… Sadly…
My wife feels like a single parent and I have a 15 yr old daughter who feels like she doesn’t have a father. I need to find something better than MSC![QUOTE=brjones;98218]I know one C/M and one Cheng who still work for MSC. According to the C/M I know he pulls down almost 200 a year. However he works 10 months a year. We even seen a post in this thread that says about 20k a month. But I will say it again. Month for month that is pretty low for a C/M. Nothing against people who work there and want to work there. If a person can handle that time on VS time off, more power to them. I have a wife and two boys and they have a hard enough time getting use to me after being gone for 60 days at a time. I cant imagine 10 months.[/QUOTE]
How is this supposed to work? Half the people in the maritime industry have jobs which are below average in pay and benefits. Should they all quit and get jobs that are above average?
When you are working anywhere in the maritime industry you don’t need social media to inform you that there are better, higher paying jobs out there. That’s almost all anyone talks about.
Stability is one reason people stay with MSC (like me). I worked regular commercial shipping for eight years and experienced the boom and bust cycles of having great pay followed by no jobs. In my five years at MSC, including the Great Recession, I’ve never been broke, out of work, unable to find work or scared I would be unable to pay my bills.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);98201]You never see those rates, those are posted as per the class of vessel, as per union rules. But, Msc employees won’t get those rates. [/QUOTE]
Captain, that is not true. The rates that Jeffrox posted are the actual base pay and OT rates for chief mates assigned to the various ship types listed. The federal pay cap is about $198K; with OT, many of the chief mates will hit it, but not all of them. Excess earnings above the pay cap go into deferred earnings. Obviously, the base pay for the captains/chief engineers is higher and every captain and chief engineer will hit the pay cap every year and will have something added to deferred earnings every year.
You seem very bitter and disgruntled for someone who made a career out of MSC and stuck with us all the way to retirement. As I am sure you know, MSC has its good points and its bad, and it is not for everyone. But you can say that about every sailing job.
I sailed with MSC and enjoyed my work and shipmates. I left primarily due to my vagabond nature and hooked-up with Getty Oil, sailing T-2’s. I enjoyed the work and wrote a letter to a young engineer I sailed with in MSC, asking him to join me over at Getty. I got a reply, [I]no thanks[/I], he told me, [I]I just got my 2nd’s and am sailing as 2nd. I think I’ll stay and buy my corvette[/I]. He did get his corvette and many more of the good things we work for. As for me, Getty closed shop in a few years later sending every seaman to the streets. I learned my lesson and joined the MEBA, still I lost jobs to ship’s being scrapped for a variety of reasons. Good thing I was a vagabond. My engineer friend over at MSC stayed with the company and retired after 20 years of service. I was far from retirement. Personally, I did take the correct path for me but what I did is not for everybody. There is something positive about a loyal employee who stays the course.
The aggregate pay cap is one issue ( One screwing from msc ), the level IV schedule is the lower rate that msc screws masters and chief engineers is the second screwing. A master and chief eng don’t get paid the rates as advertised on the pay scale for the ships they ride. I know first hand as I lived with it for years. Yes, remained with Msc, and yes it does have good people there and I’ve said as much in other post. I have also said Msc does not deserve the people it has, and I have also stated the office, DC and the rest of the leaches ashore that live off the mariners are the worst part of being with msc.
There was a time Msc did not have a deferred earning plan. You perhaps are ok with it… But not getting paid for your work, not getting war bonus, or even paid subsistence while in a ship yard is not normal for an operation. Getting the deferred earnings dumped into a non interest account is also bullsh&t and should not have been allowed.
Did I enjoy my time with msc? At times yes. I had many good friends there. Deck ape mentioned stability… Given the state of he commercial merchant marine during my time with Msc at least it was steady employment. But, staying with an organization for 30 years does not mean you’re in love with the organization. Today I’d not remain with msc as there are better jobs to be had due to the oil industry now more interested in unlimited licenses.
MSC problems why? Maybe the office folks are to blame. I know one of the port engineers on the west coast who is a piece of shit. He and I were 3rds and he kissed a lot of ass and got promotion to 2nd engineer. The chief told him to switch over boilers and he couldn’t do it without my buddies help. This same 2nd engineer comes up to me and says he knows I burned up the mig welder because I left it running all night. I had never in my merchant career have used a mig welder. This piece of shit did it and tried to hang it on me. I hear now he is in the office in San Diego. If people like this are the best they can get I feel sorry for you MSC folks
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98309]MSC problems why? Maybe the office folks are to blame. I know one of the port engineers on the west coast who is a piece of shit. He and I were 3rds and he kissed a lot of ass and got promotion to 2nd engineer. The chief told him to switch over boilers and he couldn’t do it without my buddies help. This same 2nd engineer comes up to me and says he knows I burned up the mig welder because I left it running all night. I had never in my merchant career have used a mig welder. This piece of shit did it and tried to hang it on me. I hear now he is in the office in San Diego. If people like this are the best they can get I feel sorry for you MSC folks[/QUOTE]
It’s not just MSC which harbors such ass holes - have you been reading my offerings?
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98328]It’s not just MSC which harbors such ass holes - have you been reading my offerings?[/QUOTE]
I have worked with many psychopaths on commercial vessels but they are usually “found out” eventually. I had a chief yell, “What the fuck are you doing down here,” at me because the 3rd called me (1st) out because the boiler tripped during cargo discharge ops at the El Segundo monobouy. I went down to help the man who called me because the chief didn’t answer his phone (chief always wanted to be called). A burner open limit switch was stuck open because of dripped bunkers and would not let the man relight it. We got it relit with the vent open. I quit the Tonsina (Keystone) in Valdez. The 2 thirds and second quit down south . I flew to LA and took a job on the Golden Gate as 1st for 85 days, first class bunch of men working for Keystone. Keystone eventually removed the Tonsina chief as nobody would work for the man. Msc needs to cut out the cancer to cure it’s problem.
[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;98352]I have worked with many psychopaths on commercial vessels but they are usually “found out” eventually. I had a chief yell, “What the fuck are you doing down here,” at me because the 3rd called me (1st) out because the boiler tripped during cargo discharge ops at the El Segundo monobouy. I went down to help the man who called me because the chief didn’t answer his phone (chief always wanted to be called). A burner open limit switch was stuck open because of dripped bunkers and would not let the man relight it. We got it relit with the vent open. I quit the Tonsina (Keystone) in Valdez. The 2 thirds and second quit down south . I flew to LA and took a job on the Golden Gate as 1st for 85 days, first class bunch of men working for Keystone. Keystone eventually removed the Tonsina chief as nobody would work for the man. Msc needs to cut out the cancer to cure it’s problem.[/QUOTE]
The cancer is ashore but it has spread to sea. Very aggressive. The prognosis is not good.
Assholes are everywhere, in every organization, company and walk of life. Once during a golf with my brother in law. Some assholes were hitting onto us ( we were stuck behind some other slow players ). So I said to my in law… " want to let these assholes play through and see if they can do any better?“. His comment was classic, " nope, there’s just another four assholes behind them”.
I’ve seen good people in Msc, good people in commercial, and good people ashore, but the assholes always seems to get my attention and are for some reason more memorable,
It might sound weird but I always said I would rather work for a Asshole rather than a Nice Guy. At least with the Asshole you knew where you stood. With the Good Guy you never knew if he was pissed or not.
[QUOTE=Tugs;98409]It might sound weird but I always said I would rather work for a Asshole rather than a Nice Guy. At least with the Asshole you knew where you stood. With the Good Guy you never knew if he was pissed or not.[/QUOTE]
Tugs, there are “good guys” who do let you know when they are not pleased.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;98410]Tugs, there are “good guys” who do let you know when they are not pleased.[/QUOTE]
I agree but with some of the “Nice” Guys that I worked with they would smile at you while stabbing you in the back at the same time. True Nice Guys are a pleasure to work with .
The last 4-5 years I sailed at MEBA I didn’t run across any assholes sailing as CE or 1st who I worked under taking relief jobs off the board. If you knew your job you would have no problem. I would be up all night maneuvering in the Japan inland sea (duty engineer) and we would dock in Kobe at 8 am. The chief would cut me loose for the day and I would go ashore drink beer and eat sushi. The humanity had been put back into the people who didn’t have it for years in the 80’s and 90’s. We covered for each other and made sure everyone got some port time. Once the chief on some ship took the duty and (1st, 2nd, 3rd) we all went ashore, Very decent of that man. MSC needs some people like that. There used to be some excellent people on the ships when I worked at MSC in 1980’s
I can relate to your comments. There are indeed some good men still in Msc, ( and women for that matter). There are some that I would entrust my life to ( and have). There are also those that I’d not trust to pass me the salt and get it right while at the dinner table.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);98286]The aggregate pay cap is one issue ( One screwing from msc ), the level IV schedule is the lower rate that msc screws masters and chief engineers is the second screwing. A master and chief eng don’t get paid the rates as advertised on the pay scale for the ships they ride. I know first hand as I lived with it for years. Yes, remained with Msc, and yes it does have good people there and I’ve said as much in other post. I have also said Msc does not deserve the people it has, and I have also stated the office, DC and the rest of the leaches ashore that live off the mariners are the worst part of being with msc.
There was a time Msc did not have a deferred earning plan. You perhaps are ok with it… But not getting paid for your work, not getting war bonus, or even paid subsistence while in a ship yard is not normal for an operation. Getting the deferred earnings dumped into a non interest account is also bullsh&t and should not have been allowed.
Did I enjoy my time with msc? At times yes. I had many good friends there. Deck ape mentioned stability… Given the state of he commercial merchant marine during my time with Msc at least it was steady employment. But, staying with an organization for 30 years does not mean you’re in love with the organization. Today I’d not remain with msc as there are better jobs to be had due to the oil industry now more interested in unlimited licenses.[/QUOTE]
I also wish that the pay cap didn’t exist. I bet that if you polled every mariner in the world and asked them if they want higher pay for what they do the answer would be 100% yes.
It must suck to be so bitter over a 30 plus year career. You provided a valued service to your country during your career and you earned millions of dollars along the way and have a very generous civil service retirement, yet I sense you are filled with anger over MSC. I wonder why?
I know a couple of captains who retired over the last few years under a cloud when the front office figured out that the permanent ships that they were assigned to cost about 20-30% more to operate than comperable sister ships due to unbridled OT expenditures. I am sure that the crew loved these captains for this mismanagement, but being told that they were found to be lacking in a basic job skill and were not going back to their permanent ship by someone who sits in a cubicle caused considerable bitterness for someone who was used to being the master of all he surveyed. Does this sound familiar to you?
No, doesn’t sound familiar to me, your fishing. In my time I was fair with the crew. If the cmpi said pay it then I paid it, if the carrier wanted to do operations at 0700 I did and and paid the OT. Did I hand out OT. Not in the lest. In fact I remained on budget. Btw, the " sister ship" idea is bs anyway the office likes to bring up. Take a T-AO that operates out of the west cost vice east, or deployed… Each will have various cost depending on the demands of the USN. As we know, the USN cannot plan ahead so full speed is often required prior to almost every operation. Add to that OT is spent for m/r and loading outside of normal work hours a lot of the time operations are done on strait time. As far OT goes i paid what was needed for ops and m/r, I also never tried to screw the crew. During my time with msc I was awarded many times over and in fact was given a permanent ship for as long as I waned early I my career… ( btw, there are no permanent ships, only repeat assignments so says the office). Moreover I was even called by the office to fly and " fix" a ship more than once due to the master or chief mate not doing their job ( doing the masters job is simple, take care of your people, but with a firm hand. This works both ways, firm means firm with the office as well, at times you have to stand up for the crew). My disgust with Msc is that it could have been so much more, but due to poor management it never did. Nope, I retired with from Msc under no cloud, no fires, collisions or groundings. I like to think I retired with respect of the crew. As far as the office or the USN goes who gives a rats ass what they think. Personally, I think I have no more negative feelings about Msc than anyone else that spent 30 years there. I keep up with peers and we all generally all feel about the same. If waking each day and smiling that you no longer with for Msc is angry or bitter I’ll take it. As far as retirement goes, I earned every penny from dealing with the USN away from home and family for years, and don’t feel the least bit ashamed in seeing my direct deposit each month. Go fish…
Side note: mariners being paid more is not the issue. Being paid what you are supposed to be paid is the issue, we should have never allowed the pay cap to remain. Now Msc has an entire generation that sees it as the norm. If Msc actually had decent union representation they would have fought it. But given the player on “our” side it was never properly addressed. ( before any comments are made saying this was addressed by the union please note there are two pay caps, they did fight one issue (( and lost)), the high cap that creates deferred earnings never was ).
