Why is yankee pay less than coonass pay?

I have worked the Lakes, Northern rivers, and the GOM.

I have always had to travel South to get the most bucks.

I understand the decline of shipping on the Great Lakes but it seems that a lack of qualified mariners in relation to this would take our pay up instead of less than the industry standard.

Day rates on the Lakes are usually at least $1-200/day less than what you can get in the GOM for the same job or license.

This has always baffled me because the Lakes can be just as challenging if not more so than the GOM.

And the Northern rivers can be and in many places are far trickier than any stretch of river I have navigated down South.
Why then are the companies offering me a couple hundred bucks a day less to run a Yankee boat than a coonass boat.

I understand the oil industry has a large influence on how much scratch you can pull in on an OSV compared to a wire tug on the Lakes but “splain” to me why towboat companies always send their crappiest trash can boats up North and then want to screw you out of some hard earned pay to run them up North dealing with icy decks, snow, pancake ice, tight locks, aging infrastructure, solid rock bottoms and shore lines, the shit ditch, low bridges, tricky turns, Lake Michigan crossings, and so on.

Just sayin…

The are more qualifications in the GOM. In the Lakes, you have to speak one language - English. In the GOM, you have to speak two - English and Coonass.

The only thing I can figure, though I’d have to do a serious comparison of the vessel charter rates to prove it, is that the gulf vessels are far more profitable. I’d bet that the bayou boys actually get more screwed than they realize and get a smaller slice of the profit then the northerners.

[QUOTE=Veslog;147789]… “splain” to me why ,.[/QUOTE]

Because you keep showing up at the gangway.

It’s a combination of bigger dicks and special hard to get 10,000 itc OSV license endorsements…

I was wondering why the bayou docs kept measuring me during “physicals”.

It is about one thing and one thing only…CONTROL OF THE WORKFORCE BY JOE BOSS!

by paying more than necessary, he makes his mariners captive to the onerous conditions of employment he imposes. He knows they want to gorge themselves on all that money he shovels them and will not bite the hand that gives them access to the trough. There are more than enough threads and posts that prove this…people willing to accept low or no 401K employer contributions let alone pensions, no pay for travel, less than the best health insurance, preemployment physicals that are draconian, 28/14 schedules and no contract of employment giving the boss all the rights and the worker virtually none. The entire playing field is tilted towards the owning class and they have maintained this by making all the unwashed rush to their tent with no questions asked.

JOE BOSS WINS!

[QUOTE=Steamer;147795]Because you keep showing up at the gangway.[/QUOTE]

This right here is a big reason. Anytime someone complains about how little they’re getting paid and how they could be making so much more elsewhere, my follow-on question tends to be, “Well, why aren’t you there?”

Here’s a question: how much are GOM companies contributing towards benefits? It may well be that they pay more up front, but maybe very little toward stuff like medical, pension, and the like. That obviously will make a huge difference to the total compensation package, not to mention the company’s bottom line. In your eyes you’re maybe making $200 less per day, but from the company standpoint maybe the total amount is the same.

Also consider: maybe mariners in the GOM overall make more money, but how long can that last? By that I mean, if “Joe Boss” notices there’s a glut of mariners all vying for the same jobs, what’s to stop him from just saying, “Hey, let’s go ahead and cut their pay 100 bucks per day”? Are you going to go to your union rep? I don’t know for sure, but I’ve heard that Louisiana is generally about the most unfriendly state from a worker’s perspective, so I doubt you’d get that much help there. It’s been said many times on these forums, things might be good now, but the GOM tends to be very boom-bust. So maybe a significant enough number of mariners are willing to accept less money for what they perceive as more steady work.

Just a couple thoughts.

I’d like to see 401k, medical, life, disability etc numbers. Everyone goes “OH YEAH CHOUEST GREAT BENEFITS” the next guys “OH YEAH HORNBECK EVEN BETTER” and so on. So what do you pay per month for medical insurance, and what kind of plan is it? How about 401k contribution, and how long for it to be fully vested?

In the northeast I don’t pay shit for any of it. 5k or so out of pocket annual limit with no lifetime cap on medical expenses, no deductible, etc with GOOD dental/vision, although unfortunately it is an HMO but I don’t have a problem with that especially since I live in the heart of where the insurance company’s network is broadest. 2.5x annual wage life insurance, short and long term disability. Roughly %10 annual wage contribution into my 401k from joe boss plus whatever I put in, fully vested immediately.

[QUOTE=z-drive;147808]I’d like to see 401k, medical, life, disability etc numbers. Everyone goes “OH YEAH CHOUEST GREAT BENEFITS” the next guys “OH YEAH HORNBECK EVEN BETTER” and so on. So what do you pay per month for medical insurance, and what kind of plan is it? How about 401k contribution, and how long for it to be fully vested?

In the northeast I don’t pay shit for any of it. 5k or so out of pocket annual limit with no lifetime cap on medical expenses, no deductible, etc with GOOD dental/vision, although unfortunately it is an HMO but I don’t have a problem with that especially since I live in the heart of where the insurance company’s network is broadest. 2.5x annual wage life insurance, short and long term disability. Roughly %10 annual wage contribution into my 401k from joe boss plus whatever I put in, fully vested immediately.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly. Too many people look at the paycheck as the be-all end-all and forget about how much things like GOOD health insurance actually costs. Also, besides medical, in my mind a matching 401(k) is probably the best benefit out there.

I think it’s cyclical. Before the slow down in the Gulf in the 80’s they commanded some competitive pay down there. After the slow down, and in the wake of the strikes up North, the Gulf is where you went when you couldn’t find a “real job.” With the advent of DP in the nineties, and the hurricanes 2004-2006, wages down south kept climbing. Now I’m watching the Saudis’ price adjustments, and the Shale oil production up north, wondering how the pendulum is going to swing next.

I don’t “keep showing up at the gangway”. Other fellas that don’t want to travel to the asshole of the US to make their money take the shit pay, shit boats, shit bene’s, and so on.

I have always said I work for “the union of me”. I don’t need a union to negotiate my pay or bene’s.

I have all but given up on decent bene’s and that is sea or shore job. Health ins rates are skyrocketing and you get less for paying more now.

I take a couple hundred a day more to not take the bene’s and my wife keeps me on her health ins. She works at a hospital. Very good ins.

My house is my retirement. I sock money into it to build my equity every chance I get. Will have to cash out pretty soon to pay for 3 kids to go to college but I will plug it back in and pay it off before I retire.
Again ol lady has decent 401k so she socks it in there and I sock it into the house.

We will cash out the house when kids are on their own feet and here we come Westpac on our steel hulled sailboat.
We can buy rice with her retirement and boat will be paid off.

Union is a bad word anywhere down South. Start talking union and you will be gone overnight. There is no unity in the GOM. Or anywhere down south.

And if you work for a decent company that matches or does better than what the union could do for you then why would you fork out those dues every month?

I don’t work the Lakes or Yankee jobs unless I am desperate. I stowed my pride a long time ago when it comes to supporting my family.
But I treat a Yankee job like an ugly whore. I just hang onto her until a better one comes along…

[QUOTE=Veslog;147950] My house is my retirement. I sock money into it to build my equity every chance I get. Will have to cash out pretty soon to pay for 3 kids to go to college but I will plug it back in and pay it off before I retire.
.[/QUOTE]
I sailed with a few from Florida that this retirement plan did not work out so well for them…

With travel being much more easier today, a southerner can work up north with welcome arms. Bounce unions if you like. Pay your dues, vote, and when times are tough or shipyard time comes up he can catch a flight to New Orleans and use his contacts and get back to work. Why not promote diversity in the USMM, the companies don’t care who you worked for as long as you’ve done a good job and kept your nose clean. Individual retirement plans, medical can get a little tedious but even that is able to be negotiated, officers always have it easiest in transition. Who cares about company loyalty or union loyalty in 2014, it doesn’t exist so just be loyal to American shipping and helping your crew better themselves, keep your boat or ship in good shape and remember where you came from.