Why does the USCG require a regimental system? The FAA does not for airline pilots. Also there is no consistancy between the school as to how the regiemnts are run.
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The Coast Guard doesn’t. MARAD does. See 46 CFR Part 310. And not all Coast Guard approved programs for 3rd Mate and STCW OICNW have a regiment, see e.g. MITAGS and PMI.
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The merchant marine that MARAD was created to administer was meant to work closely with the U.S. Navy in time of war, chiefly on convoy duty. In such an event MM officers need to know how to operate under military discipline.
All the mandatory courses taken in academies re: military organization etc. are all predicated on the expectation that any time the the USMM can become a de-facto arm of the U.S. military. Hence the regimental training.
Does this still make sense in the modern world? MARAD still dictates certain regs to all USMM academies receiving federal funding. Federal regs (and MARAD) are hard to change.
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Agreed that federal regs are hard to change. From a historic perspective it may make sense, but we also have a de facto air force in the Civil Air Reserve fleet and those pilots do not have regimental training.Civil Reserve Air Fleet > Air Force > Fact Sheet Display
So does it still make sense and there seems to be no real consensus between the 7 schools as to how “military,” the regiments are.
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Yea but captaining and crewing an airplane vs captaining and crewing a ship aren’t really the same. from an historical perspective.
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Will they be expected to fly in box formations to reduce the effects of AA fire?
See, MARAD and the Navy still have it in their head that we will be sailing in convoys a la the Battle of the Atlantic. For that reason, we “need the military discipline” in order to properly take orders from our superiors (and give orders to our subordinates).
Is that reasoning out of date? Yeah, pretty badly. But at the same time in reality, we would be directly interfacing/sailing with Navy vessels for days/weeks at a time, and it’s probably helpful to have at least a little regimental training.
There’s also one other factor you’re not taking fully into consideration. How many airline/air cargo Captains are there who earned a set of silver or gold wings “in their previous life?” That number is considerably higher than the number of former SWO’s and Cuttermen sailing as Captains in the USMM I’m sure.
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The schools operated with a regimental system well before MARAD came along. NY Nautical School (SUNY) for example, was regimented from day one in 1874.
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Seems a fair percentage of USMMA grads go to MSC as their first jobs. Quite a few others serve in different branches of the military. The SSO guys serve in the military when called upon. Therefore as much to some dislike, they are familiar with that style of employment during their commitment time.
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Other than the Reg requirements mentioned by others, I would expect the size of hierarchy on a ship makes it more relevant, as well as the lengthy interactions of the personnel. A merchant ship for a 60 day tour, similar to the navy, is much more restrictive than a 12 hour plane trip. Does an airplane captain even have any serious communications with the cabin crew, or is that all just assumed in the hour it takes to turn around a flight at the gate?
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Any good reason not to? System seems to have been working pretty well for a bit now. The graduates of the acadamies have done a better than fair job of providing the marine industries in the US with people, and the people - by all accounts of done a pretty good job at making themselves a pretty good living. Doesn’t seem to be anything too broken here.
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the first thing that spang to my mind was if a ships force ended up fighting on land.
I’m pretty sure that has transpired to some degree in this country’s history.
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The benefits of the regiment are often not understood until long after graduation. Many civilian students later regret not participating in the regiment, even if they would not pursue a license, as the benefits can apply to many fields.
In his 30 page letter (attached) to SUNY Maritime at the turn of the century; when the college was seriously considering starting a civilian program because it was facing closure due to financial reasons, James Maloney a teacher there makes the point that undergoing challenging, rigorous experiences can, and often does, promote learning, increase self-reliance, motivation, and so forth.
I believe he still teaches there, but the school did start offering civilians degrees.
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Both my son and two of his wrestling/football partners went to Kings Point ,West Point, and one in the Marine Corps at Va Tech. I truly believe the “Regimental” traiining was beneficial to their success in leading people in their respective occupations today… Teamwork is crucial to being a good leader, all three got a fair taste of that early on and at their respective academies.
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