Dang cool. Did you make it or buy it? Either way it’s something I would be happy to have as a reading light.
@tengineer1, I didn’t see any deeper discussion about consulting on this thread. Broadly, what sort of consulting did you get into? Related to your shipping background? Would you consider it a viable career possibility for moving shoreside (were you not retired)?
While your question was directed @tengineer1, consulting on the engineering side often involves doing technical superintendent work during shipyard periods or planned underway project work. I have overseen modifications in shipyards or lay periods, supervised riding gangs, ridden ships to verify systems (and how the various crews operate said systems), and written procedures…to name a few off the top of my head.
Jobs consulting ranged from insurance investigations to shipyard work contract review etc… All of which came by way of offers from people/companies I dealt with in the past. With things being slow now there is a bit of a demand for someone with experience to come in on a temporary basis. Retired people can do that but it would be hard to support a family with consulting now. The world economy is not booming by any definition and the oil exploration business is really slow with a lot of experienced marine types that will work for almost nothing. I still get calls around the holidays for casualty prelims but its the holidays. So the short answer is; those who hire consultants in this economy want those with many years of varied experience, at least a BS in engineering and a flexible schedule. At the end of the day its who you know and who knows you.
The one thing I miss is having a decent meal cooked every day on the rig. I hate doing dishes. God bless the good cooks still out there.
I’m not retired yet but know I’ll miss that because I miss it after being off a few weeks. The cooks I work with are chefs & they always have healthy, delicious, vegetarian & vegan dishes on the line, stuff that we hardly/never cook at home. I eat healthier at work so I know it is something I’ll have to compensate for in retirement. I noticed a lot of elderly retired looking people at buffets over the years so maybe I’ll buy a pair of polyester checked pants that goes up to my belly button & hit the buffets everyday too?
That’s similar to my mentality,
8 years ago, at the age of 35, I “retired” from shipping. At that moment I was at the highest tier Captain’s pay working for the second highest paying company in the world. That year I also turned down a pilot training program that would have doubled my salary. Then, with just 5 credits left, I dropped out of a top MBA program and the opportunity for an executive suite and a salary any pilot would be envious of.
Since then I have lived on a fixed salary low enough that it shocks the people I tell.
Why?
Locking myself into a job like that would give me plenty of Fuck You Money but come with huge opportunity costs.
To understand further you need to know that I grew poor in one of the world’s wealthiest zip codes. Research tells us that the amount of money you have doesn’t correlate to happiness, but the amount of money you have relative to your neighbors does. This is why many sailors move to the Philippines.
By this metric I should have been one of the unhappiest people in the world. But I wasn’t. I had a happy childhood while many of our neighbors were miserable. I also have personally known people who were literally the poorest in the world because they gambled BIG on Wall Street, lost, and were millions in debt.
What causes unhappiness is not a low level of absolute wealth but low wealth relative to those around you combined with a competitive mindset. This is also why there is a lot of misery in rich neighborhoods… and a competition mindset is the root cause. I was surrounded by A Types who were working 16hr days to keep up with the jones’ and spent their “free” time doing things that made them even more miserable like running marathons. Everyone was trying to beat the next guy. Fear of loosing everything also causes lots of misery (that town was swimming in fear) but few of the people I know who have actually lost everything are miserable. Many who lost “everything” became happier bankruptcy doesn’t take away what matters most: close friends, family, healthy, knowledge, and education.
In short, @Sand_Pebble, I fully agree with your friend’s assessment. “Fuck you money” FYM is a wonderful thing… but it’s also a tricky proposition. Between the age of 20 and 30 I maxed out my 401K and IRA and put most of that into a little stock called Apple. Technically I have plenty of FYM too but I can’t touch it for another 20 years without Uncle Sam stealing half. My FYM has to spend 20 years at the mercy of inflation, some “brilliant” trader’s next derivatives scheme or a politician’s new fiscal policy. No retirement money is 100% secure. Even the most secure “guarenteed” pension can be wiped out by one smart greedy lawyer or politician or Federal Reserve Chairman.
What’s more important is FYO: “Fuck You Opportunity”.
I’ve started a handful of businesses since retiring. Most have failed… one turned into gCaptain. Today I live on a small fixed salary. COVID19 makes gCaptain’s financial uncertain. gCaptain’s advertisers are laying off people at an alarming rate. Am I worried? Nope. I have a healthy level of concern but zero fear. When the market tanked everyone with FYM was scared but not me because I have FYO!
And here’s the secret: you also have FYO.
A ship officer license is an exclusive government license to turn effort into money. Anyone who knows anything about exclusive licensing agreements knows that the harder it is to obtain a license the more valuable it is.
90% of small business fail. gCaptain might fail too. I sure as hell hope not and will do whatever I can to get it through these tough times but the current economic situation doesn’t give me an ounce of fear because I have loads of FYO.
Here are my FYO’s;
- a master unlimited license
- I can take 5 more credits and finish my MBA
- I know how to start a business and start a new one aligned to cash in on new opportunities if the market implodes.
- The gCaptain Job board gives me first dibs on many opportunities
- I can retire on my 43’ sailboat, fish, suntan, and live off the sea.
- Access to friendships and knowledge gained over the years of sailing and running gCaptain.
Out of all those my license it the easiest, surest and quickest of my FYOs.
BUT there is a catch, FYO is the same as FYM in one important respect: diversity matters! If you spent your entire career aboard one class of cruise ship or one type of drillship, your resume lacks diversity and you are probably hurting right now (or will be soon). An unlimited license is one of the best FYO’s in the world… but only if it’s backed by diversity of experience and knowledge. Only if you haven’t pigeonholed yourself.
FYO gives you the ability to say no to jobs that will steal all your time. FYO allows you to live without fear or regret. Diverse FYO allows you to weather any storm. FYO allows you to say Fuck You and walk off the gangway anytime you want. FYO makes you happy and stress free. Investing in a diverse portfolio of FYO gives you a pretty full life.
Now if you are at an advanced age you might have a lot of FYM and your health or something may limit your FYO. In that case just enjoy life the best you can and just spend a few hours a week learning something or developing friendships that gives you FYU because, as the stoic’s said, the secret to a good life is to “Live as if you will die tomorrow and study and learn as if you will live forever.”
Good to hear a positive outlook on things on this forum. Thanks John.
Wise advice for happiness. FYM money was good to me because it gave me FYO[s] and still does. But I don’t and did not need to impress anyone with expensive toys or trophies of any nature. Simple suited me. [ ex-wives a little less so] I’m not sure when advanced age begins but so far it seems to me it must be past 6 decades of life, I’ll let you know when I find it. Buddhist friend of mine tells me the body ages inevitably but the mind and soul ages only if you quit feeding them well.
Reminds me about the Buddhist story about the poorest man in the world who became the most powerful.
His entire life he built businesses and lost money on almost every deal. He failed so big and owed so much money at one point that he was christened the poorest person in the world by Forbes. Did he learn his lesson? No. He lost even more money the next time. But did the man really squander all those millions? Nope. He spent all his FYM building relationships and FYO. Then, when he was ready to retire, he cashed in all his FYO, and became president of the USA.
Wait, that’s not a Buddhists story, it’s Donald Trump, but it sounds kinda Buddhist! 
Here’s the best “old” advice I’ve read about retirement:
On the Shortness of Life
And here’s the more practical version of it:
The Daily Stoic
P.S. You Engineers have a lot more FYO than deckies. Even ones with little very little FYO diversity. You guys can switch ship types, work in power plants, get jobs in shipyards, do a whole lot of interesting things.
This is 100% correct. My wife is from a foriegn country & spent some of her childhood living in a home with a dirt floor & I went from being poor as a child to an orphanage after the death of my parents. We weren’t even allowed on the field to attempt to join the rat race to keep up with the Jones. Being so disadvantaged that we knew we couldn’t even pretend to keep up with the Jones was a great benefit to us because nothing was expected from us & we were allowed to do things our own way which has turned out very good for our family. Both of us had happy childhoods being poor & share stories about it constantly with our kids. Dave Ramsay has a saying about being frugal that I like, “Live like no one else today so you can live like no one else in the future.”
Concerning money locked in tax deferred accounts. We’ll be in our late 40’s at our planned possible retirement date & considering using the SEPP plan to not pay the 10% early withdrawal penalty but still undecided. The mandatory withdrawal rate (midterm interest rate option) is usually under what dividends pay so that might be a way to get some off the Apple nest egg without touching the principal & paying a penalty.
About the FYO, you are obvious an entrepreneur who sees starting & growing a business as a fun thing to do in early retirement. I’d rather swing a hammer at Habitat for Humanity, delivery pizza or guide a hike because running a business is too stressful for me. Some have it but I don’t, I need a lot of FYM & hopefully stay in good health in case I must depend on the FYO. Thanks for the advice.
I woke up this morning in time to watch one of my favorite shows and compete against my wife on “The Price is Right”. Was up late watching some oldie but goodie movies. This is a very entertaining and good thread. Have been on both sides of FYM and FYO. Again, love the discussion. They are gonna spin the wheel soon, I know it is a repeat, but gotta go for now. Wish me luck outbiddiding my bride !
P.S.I remember when Apple was 5 bucks a share before Steve Jobs came back and Buffet bought a shitload. Good for you Sand Pebble.
Yes, that may be true but I know quite a few deck types that used their organizational and planning skills which are inherent in the job to do quite well. We engineers or wanna be engineers also go thru times of unemployment. Many years ago before I “got my shit together” as my father termed it I was finding myself between jobs on tramp freighters and occasional school. I was dirt poor. I dared not ask for help from family. Those people you see sleeping under bridges? That was me for awhile, never figured it would happen but it did. Lot of shelter under the upper parts of the underside of a bridge, just get out before the cops show up because the bridge fishermen reported you. Slept in abandoned trucks and was grateful the windows would roll up to keep out the mosquitoes. I learned to appreciate those in similar circumstances, some of their own making many just out of work folks trying to survive. Needless to say I got past that but never forgot it. I got lucky. I did well with help from others once I swallowed my pride. I pay back what I can. Started a couple of small businesses and turned them over to the people that worked for me. They send me Christmas cards and photos of their families, that’s enough for me. I built a water purification project in one of those shit hole countries that doctors tell me has saved hundred of lives. Cost? about $4000. Like Sandpebble I had rather sling a hammer or show one how to direct it nowadays though. Life is short. Never seen a luggage rack on a hearse. We reap what we sow and all those other cliches 
I agree 
a business can be stressful (depending on your mindset and the team you build) but that’s not the only option. You don’t need to start a business to get FYO. You do need to build something of value like strong friendships, unique skills, specialized knowledge, the list is long.
I can’t see much opportunity delivering pizza but making friends with successful people on the board of hfh could do it. Swinging a hammer is not a unique skill but I know a guy who lost his job and now builds sweet yoga gazebos. Technically it’s a business but he tells the people it can’t be rushed and he’ll walk off the job if they bug him. He interviews his clients instead of chasing work which makes him more desirable. The few times the clients dried up he just joined a roofing crew for a few months and waited for a call. The call always comes eventually because he does great work.
Now with covid19 you’d think people would be cutting back on luxuries like yoga gazebos. Nope. People want some outdoor space more than ever.
I know another guy who does the same with cool custom wood fences. No office, no overhead, no costs. He doesn’t even advertise except to post a new photo of his latest fence in the local coffee shops each month.
My bride and I do a bit of volunteer work for youth sports. She of all things was a killer football and basketball coach. I was her helper/assistant because of my work back then. A few of her players went to college, more so for an education than sports. But a couple of them did go to a higher level in D1 to D3. We both continue at our ripe age to scout football players to go to the next level and get an education at the same time.
At least he will not sail away to uncertainty in hurricane winds; he can easily fix his prepared headline to a tree, an old friend or another ‘solid’ point.
I watched lots of people from when I grew up till now that saved up for a retirement they never got for various reasons mostly health, and that can bite no matter how rich you are.
I also look at the lives of retirees from rich to poor and the happy ones are also not defined by money as long as you know where your next meal is coming from.
Lots of people keep working because they enjoy it.
Golden rule I have learnt from others including my late father is dont retire till you have a plan. Or retire because your hobby no longer allows any work time.