Your expertise in all things adminstrative is well documented. So rather than asking why do I think I’m right, why don’t you bless us with your view on why you think I’m wrong.
Seems to me you’re using ‘desperation’ solely in a negative connotation. Seems to me you could equally posit that a person is desperate to work for the WSF because that has been their dream; or desperate to work for the ferry system because they find a challenge in it, and thrive on challenge; desperate to work for the WSF because its combination of positive factors suits them to a T.
Are you the sole arbiter of what a person wants and doesn’t want?
As previously stated
@freighterman1, I could tell you were getting emotional by your obviously butt-hurt reaction to my term ‘real license’ so I’d like to expand on that concept.
To review what I said:
I’m talking about for example a DDE1000, or ‘six pack’ license, or something similar. Do you not agree that a person holding those documents have severe limitations on their ability to be employed on that license?
Hope that soothes you to some degree.
In your opinion would you say that the percentage of people this applies to is large enough to be useful to this conversation even if you can’t cite the percentage to any mathematical certainty?
in the macroeconomic view, the USA is filled with 100’s of maritime companies, most of which will have easier hiring practices than the WSF, and many of which will have as good or better pay and benefits than the WSF. A person could more easily take a job with them than the WSF.
It seems to me the only people who would take the trouble to work there are the people motivated to do so. Any system which inclines new hires to be more motivated than not seems to me not to be a bad thing.
In the microeconomic view: the WSF has seasonal high and lows in employment. High in summer, when additional runs are put on for the tourist season. Low in winter. As I have heard it, new people generally enter the system during the summer. They have to run around from town to town, filling in for the steady people, some of whom are taking summer vacation. They have to be trained for these positions, which costs the taxpayer money, and as they fill the positions they gain valuable experience.
When the summer is over they are laid off. But as steady positions open, they are filled in with the temps. I have a friend who went from temp to steady in about six months. He stuck with it because he was motivated. He knew if he stuck with it he would be promoted to steady, and so he never missed an on-call assigment. Something the users of the service should be grateful for.
Now imagine a system where the steady positions were filled by academy grads or whatever, and temps seldom or never become steadies. This would incline to less motivated people hiring on to do temp work. Why run around at all hours for a temp job that will never become steady?
The purpose of the WSF is to provide reliable transportation. How does having less motivated, less reliable temps help that happen? Does hiring a third mate who knows less about his job than an AB make the operation more efficient or less efficient?
Here is where I disagree.
In boom times (2006), yes totally agree. Nowadays? Not so much.
The rest of your post makes sense. The company wants to identify those willing to eat their shit sandwich and then come back for seconds and then retain and promote those people. Apparently there’s enough people desperate enough (in some facet of their lives) to put up with it and keep the ship’s manned with people to spare.
I can only imagine what a horror show they would be to work for if they weren’t union.
1 Like
How? How does answering your question indicate emotionality? You’ve answered my question on just this point three times at least. I don’t suspect you of being three times more emotional than me.
Perhaps an interesting subject, but how is that germane here? The WSF, as I understand it, requires something more substantial than these licenses.
The subject as I understand it, is the fitness of WSF’s hiring practices for the operations for which it is intended. I use the WSF. It works. An officer that works for the WSF has commented here that he is inclined to view it as positive to the operation, in general. Others may have strong opinions.
You can’t start a tangental topic (do you have a CDL) then complain about staying germane when the person responds.
1 Like
I have no idea of what the percentage is. The larger question is, is the WSF system getting enough good people to man their vessels? Since the ferries generally run on time, and they do not have a large number of accidents, my guess would be yes. The WSF has an unusual system for hiring, but given their seasonal highs and lows in staffing, I can see it being useful, for the reason stated above.
There is the separate system of financial efficiency, but really, I don’t think that figures into this discussion.
And yet you keep asking
That isn’t a topic. I provided an example of restrictive licenses in other modes of transportation, in order to answer your question about the “reality” of licenses.
Shit sandwich? Others may disagree. Others may have lived harder lives, and done more to earn their bread, and all of it without the guarantee of a good job on the other side.
I’m pretty sure who you hire and your hiring practices figure into financial efficiency, and that is pretty germane to the discussion at hand.
https://ofm.wa.gov/budget/state-budgets/gov-inslees-proposed-2019-21-budgets/agency-detail-budgets/405/X00
1 Like
This is true. Apparently there are some willing to consider the WSF hiring process more of a ‘peanut infused spread’.
And after having done all that, some might come to the conclusion that perhaps there’s a better way.
But apparently, enough don’t.
It’s certainly part, but not all of the equation. There was another thread last year about the financial efficiency of the WSF, so perhaps it’s best to resurrect that one, though it would just be resurrecting old arguments.
One of the big problems with making the WSF financially efficient is that it is an extension of the highway system, and we don’t look at roads to make a profit for the taxpayer. Roads exist for commerce to thrive.
We all complain about the costs of bridges and tunnels, and IMO the WSF is far more complicated and labor intensive than operating any tunnel or bridge. Also, and mainly, it is strongly subject to local politics, which inclines it away from financial efficiency.
As an FYI to all, engineering crew at WSF are hired in a very different way. There are two ways to get hired into the engine room:
First, as an Oiler. Post-Janus, they no longer hire in groups from the union hall. They publicly post the jobs, and conduct individual interviews. Most Oiler group hires are 10-15 people. These people are then on call, just like Ordinaries or ABs, until they get a permanent job.
Second, as an Assistant. Every third AE position is hired directly from the union hall. You don’t have to be a member of the union (allegedly) but there is no on call period to deal with. Must have 3/AE at a minimum.
3 Likes
Given the dual problems of attracting and retaining motivated seasonal people for staffing the summer, and always wanting to have experienced people loading hundreds of cars within minutes, safely, and without damage or delay, which is a deck officer’s job on a ferry, what is your better way?
That’s the company’s perspective. Of course for them this system is GREAT. Best thing since sliced bread with a little ‘peanut infused spread’
I’m talking about (and so were you in this post)
THIS person’s perspective.
I don’t know… How about this:
1 Like