Not sure about defined benefit, I was one of the last to get that years ago. Got one Cola and frozen. US Gov stepped in and forced them to make the changes they made. Pension was not reduced, medical stayed the same. I do know the plan has appreciated quite well since the McKays were ousted. Mr Paul Doell and management took them from being quite underfunded at about 60% or so to well over 80% . No small feat. Schooling still available and new headquarters built in the last decade or so.
I’ve been in two of those unions.
I occasionally do short jobs for an MMP Inland employer. They can hire anyone they want to without going to the union. New hires are supposed to join the union after working 200 hours, but that detail often gets overlooked. The pay looks good, but overtime starts at 12 hours, so there is not much of it. The company will frequently crew off for half a day, or for a day or two, but it’s not practical to go home for a short time, so they are essentially forcing the crew to camp out on the boat without pay until the next job call. At the end of the month, it pays less for the month than a typical non-union job.
I have had opportunities to work for a Local 5000 employer, but turned them down because the pay was so low, and the working conditions too restrictive.
I have had opportunities to be placed in jobs by Local 25, but again either the pay was too low, and/ or there was something else that made the job not worthwhile.
I have had opportunities to work for the inland branch of SIU, but the pay was too low. I hear that things have improved at SIU and that they are looking for new members with Master of Towing.
Then how is one supposed to upgrade? It’s the cost of doing business. And if somebody sailing 2/M for a couple years can’t afford the 15-20k it costs to upgrade, they should re-evaluate their bank account.
Good point
Is this a fair cost estimate? Having never taken a course that wasn’t paid for by the company, does anyone have the recent numbers on what this cost is? It’s always a hot topic, and always seems at first glance that the course burden is greater for mates than engineers.
But dollars and cents, what is the cost of an upgrade all in?
Cmakin, I’ll bet that was a very animated, and entertaining interview. Doesn’t seem like they could bullshit their way out of that mishap, but perhaps tried. I take it you were on to them after the first sentence. Ran to Belize a few times and a few ports farther south, carrying drugstore loads. Yucatan was the easiest to miss going on a reef. Scratching my head on that one. Again, 4 man crew offshore rig is ridiculous.
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A 4 day STCW is 1300 bucks
Or what about the ones that complain about having to pay the 145 dollars every five years to renew their MMC?
$145 to renew is a minor expense, not even worth complaining about. The fees to upgrade and maintain are quite high as compared to a few years ago. Agree, if sailing as second mate or engineer,you should have the resources, but every ones monetary situation is different. Especially if you have kids and a mortgage. Cannot speak for others, but not living above your means to better your position goes a long way.
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You need a lot more than that to upgrade to C/M from 2/M.
I haven’t followed the latest set of rules, since it seems to keep changing, but if a 2/M gets off their ass and gets a 1600T Master, they can circumvent a lot of the sign-offs. There are 4-5 required courses, and the cost is somewhere around 15-20k for the courses, room and board, etc. Maybe somebody who went through it recently or is going through it now can comment.
Yes, it’s expensive. I do believe that it’s more of a burden on the Mates than the Engineers. A perk of being in the union is that you get those courses for free, but you’re also then beholden to them for several years. Pay for it yourself, get the job yourself, and then you don’t owe anybody anything.
And if you can’t afford it, shame on you. So quit bitching about it. Or go find a union job.
I held a 1600 until 1994 when I got off boats for a while. I am currently MOT unltd. To reestablish my 1600 will require 4 additional modules the toughest of which is stability.
Stability was/is a bitch to study for. I did well in things I enjoyed, stability was not one of them. Important, absolutely, fun…not a bit. Got through it but not my favorite. Glad we had decent programs to figure it out in the field.
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I am currently union and I like having seniority to protect you in case of layoff. The gom companies that laid off didn’t say use the newer employees first, they didn’t lay off the worst employees first, they just stacked boats and lays off that crew regardless of who was in there. They couldn’t be bothered to put any thought into it. (I’m sure there were exceptions for people that golfed with the owners son’s though.)
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No, but you posted negative comments that didn’t further the conversation in any way, you were just doing to to be negative against America.
No.
If I remember correctly, 15 years ago when I upgraded to C/M, the cost with room and board was between $35k and $40k. Mind you, back then, you had no choice to get assessments done by anyone except an approved school so 12 weeks of classes were needed. Two of those weeks were simulator classes which were prohibitively expensive.
If I’ve had any advice for young people considering working for a union it is to do so if you plan on upgrading beyond second mate. For what you pay them in dues and initiation fees, you can potentially get back 5 times worth in training. Plus, make a few bucks in the meantime.
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There are pluses and minus for all things.
Incorrect. Master 3,000 GT has to do all the same classes and most of the assessments. Plus, a second mate doesn’t have the sea time for Master 3,000 until after they have the sea time for Chief Mate Unlimited anyway.
Not really, not anymore. You appear to be basing this on regulations and policies before 2014 (or 2017 if one was grandfathered).
If anything, they need to do MORE assessments. There are assessments for Master Less Than 3,000 GT, almost as many as for Master/Chief Mate 3,000 GT or More. When upgrading later to Chief Mate 3,000 GT or More, you will not have to re-do some of the assessments that you did for Master Less Than 3,000 GT but you will have to do assessments for things that are different for larger vessels (e.g. shiphandling). See Enclosures (2) of NVICs 11-14 and 10-14. The assessments that do not have to be repeated for the upgrade to Chief Mate 3,000 GT or More (if you hold Master Less Than 3,000 GT) are marked with “Note 1.”
The courses for both Less Than 3,000 GT and for 3,000 GT or More are the same. While you wouldn’t need to re-take them to upgrade to from Less Than 3,000 GT to 3,000 GT or more, you would not be avoiding any of them by first going to Master Less Than 3,000 GT.
Note also that the STCW endorsement for Master Less Than 3,000 GT requires more sea time than the national endorsement for Master 1,600 GRT, so it may not be feasible to get the STCW endorsement for Master 3,000 GT or More when you upgrade the national endorsement from 3rd Mate to 2nd Mate.
I didn’t get down to Chetumal until very late at night, and we wanted to get the interviews done ASAP. Interviewed them separately. The one-armed Captain (who couldn’t read or write, and spoke “French” better than English) said that his son was on watch. . . his son said that his father was on watch. . . they both stated that the GPS was “off”. . . .I asked the son when he took the last fix, and he said midnight. They ran up on the reef around 0530, as I recall. I asked why no one took a fix before that and was told that it was time yet. . . I then asked what kind of watch rotation they were using, and the son told me that he drives until he gets tired, and then he wakes up is daddy. . . . I then asked about the general routine, and he told me that every once and awhile, he goes down to the engine room to check things out. I asked him if he puts one of the two deckhands on the wheel while he is in the engine room, and he then said that he sends the deckhand down the the engine room. . . yeah, I’m done now. . . . .Oh, and at least they were running light tug at the time. . . . could have been real nasty if they weren’t . . .
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