USS Zumwalt breaks down in the Panama Canal

[QUOTE=lm1883;192804]It is reality and it is ours. You are a constituent and you should make your voice heard. Your experience with MERPAC is evidence of it.

Edit – In the last 6 years or so, the congressional majority has been opposite of the president. They were not appointed but elected and done so with the mandate to check (read obstruct) the executive branch. This is the design of our government. Get back to me in 2 years when the democrats have the house or senate. Will you feel they are obstructing or checking the Mr. Trump?

As far as the corruption issue, it is your job as a constituent to notify your representative with your concerns, but would/do you overlook it if they were representing your interests? Is corruption ok as long as it is on your side?[/QUOTE]

Total lobbying spending that can be accounted for in the USA last year was around 3 BILLION dollars. The average voter cannot afford a lobbyist to represent them. The average voter is ignorant as the most recent election shows. They voted for change via Mr Trump but voted almost all incumbent representatives right back into office. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while thinking there will be a different result. Therefore the average voter is either insane OR realizes the ballot box is just a suggestion box for slaves and doesn’t care anymore.

I believe the biggest problem with the new ship designs is the old guard were more cautious about bringing too much g-whizz on line too fast. vital tactical systems are never too far removed from power sources and often have manual over rides. I understand many systems now are integrated and unable to operate ‘stand alone’. BUT: I think having some much older not so much star wars college kids on the design team would result in more robust systems with a lesser fail rate. RE: Massachusetts service/hospitality jobs down 2,200 since July blamed on new min. wage: ref; mass. state emp. figures // Conneticut down 1400 since april '14- ref; state emp. figures. and this is during a upboom elsewhere… well, except Dakota of course!

[QUOTE=Steamer;192803]On what planet is that the reality?[/QUOTE]

not on what “planet” Steamer but in what “UNIVERSE”? certainly not in the one we inhabit…must be that parallel one out there where the citizens elect genuine representatives of the people and then hold them responsible for their actions. Of course, in that same parallel universe virtually all of the citizens have high intellects and only that very small percentage who have low intelligence do not have the right to vote.

I believe it would be fitting to call that universe the blue one and ours the red one.

Hahahahaha! Haaaaahahahahaha!

Yeah all of those right wing nut jobs protesting in the streets and blocking traffic should be taken care of NOW!

[QUOTE=c.captain;192819]not on what “planet” Steamer but in what “UNIVERSE”? certainly not in the one we inhabit…must be that parallel one out there where the citizens elect genuine representatives of the people and then hold them responsible for their actions. Of course, in that same parallel universe virtually all of the citizens have high intellects and only that very small percentage who have low intelligence do not have the right to vote.[/QUOTE]

My bad. You were right after all. The homeless guy in front of the liquor store told me. Men dressed in black with TT on their collars are going to round up all non-whites and people who voted democrat and bus them to FEMA camps where they’ll be forced to watch reruns of the Lawrence Welk show and Trump speeches night and day for a month before being used as slave labor to build oil pipelines.

[QUOTE=lm1883;192811]… let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.[/QUOTE]

I believe the baby, the bath water, and the bath all need to be thrown out.

As long as we have a political system powered by legalized bribery we are doomed to what we have been subjected since Eisenhower’s day. It may be an antiquated term but the “military industrial complex” is the source of the drug that poisons us … political bribery.

If you cannot legally cast a vote for a candidate, any money from you to them is a bribe. Political bribery should be treated worse than drug crimes, it has a more negative impact and kills more people than any drug crime ever could.

Anyone naive enough to think a politician cares about what the electorate thinks or wants only needs to try and send a comment to one outside his district via the politician’s website. You cannot do it, you are blocked because you are not in his district. If you live in Ohio but want to send money to a California politician, no problem, cash, stamps, green stamps, they are happy to take anything. If you send enough or pay for them and their family to meet you at some resort in Tahiti they will even write legislation to do whatever you ask.

The system is corrupted and broken. Ban all lobbying by anyone who cannot vote for the politician, ban all financial support beyond a small amount ($500?) from registered voters who can cast a vote for the recipient. Ban all PACs, ban all “soft money” ban all third party contribution techniques, if you want to give to your politician, write a check or put a $5 bill in an envelope. The current state of affairs in all respects shows why we need to return political power to the electorate.

Paid political lobbying should be seen and treated the same a drug dealing. Our politicians are addicted and the halls of congress are the lobbyist’s schoolyard.

Don’t worry, Capt. Trump to the rescue: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/01/navys-costly--and-controversial--zumwalt-ship-may-get-second-look-by-trump.html
Or will he order “more of the same”?

[QUOTE=ombugge;192988]Or will he order “more of the same”?[/QUOTE]

seriously…what do you think?

Saw this on Facebook and got a kick out of it.

In the news today:

The US Navy has announced that a team of Engineers have got the USS Zumwalt back underway under her own power after many billions of dollars and an intense study period. The engineers determined that the best fix for this beleaguered ship was to cut holes in the hull and insert oars for the crew. Also, a sail was attached to the topmost of the mast. The Navy expects that this will be a highly successful change to the ship and are currently spending billions more dollars to determine if it can also be implemented on the equally beleaguered LCS program.

[QUOTE=c.captain;192991]seriously…what do you think?[/QUOTE]

I think the “report” is on a par with the usual journalistic diarrhea spewed by cnbc hacks.
On a lighter note, I wonder how much of the Zumwalt’s cost was due to the requirement that the ship be stealthy. I can see the justification for an aerial bomber to get in and out of a combat zone without being detected by radar but can anyone explain how useful it is for a ship?
Especially ironic considering they can’t afford to use their long distance ordinance at one million dollars a pop and will have to get close enough to whatever they want to shoot at that they’ll be easy to spot using cheap binoculars.

The "report"is a farce. The vessel delivers ordnance to shore targets from extreme standoff range via Tomahawk cruise missile, as designed. Once the threat of retaliation by shore based missiles is neutralized, the vessel can move in to support troops and bombard targets with the 155mm gun weapon system. The ship was designed stealthy to reduce the chance of targeting by shore and ship launched anti ship cruise missiles and other ordnance. The ship features reductions to radar and thermal detection. The 155 ordnance they reference are rocket assisted, guided projectiles designed for pinpoint accuracy. Yes, they are expensive and will be used for precision strike only. General bombardment would be performed by standard HE rounds.

The ship will likely sport laser weaponry in the next 10 years.

Yes, its a complex system. But as ombugge preaches daily, “it is the future and it doesn’t matter if you accept it, it will be forced upon you”.

Yall need to pick up a copy of Naval Institute Proceedings and get up to date on the current status of our military. Warts and all.

WTF? It sounds like what (relatively) cheap airplanes and UAVs do right now. So why do the admirals need another pork barrel ship that can’t even get out of its own way?

Once the threat of retaliation by shore based missiles is neutralized, the vessel can move in to support troops and bombard targets with the 155mm gun weapon system.

So why does it need all that magic stealth crap that probably doesn’t work anyway? A tug could tow a barge with a couple of 155s and a few soldiers to accomplish the same thing once the “threat” is “neutralized.” What a self defeating argument that is.

The ship was designed stealthy to reduce the chance of targeting by shore and ship launched anti ship cruise missiles and other ordnance. The ship features reductions to radar and thermal detection.

Oh yeah, less than one of those (relatively) cheap airplanes or a drone?

Doesn’t anyone in DC object to the stink of this rotting pork barrel?

[QUOTE=Steamer;192995]So why does it need all that magic stealth crap that probably doesn’t work anyway?[/QUOTE]

You’re right, it’s only partially effective and varies with circumstances. Even if the stealthiness of the ship was 100% effective and its propulsion issues corrected, the stealth feature is then only useful if it is operating by itself far enough away (several hours of steaming) from the rest of the fleet so its ships won’t be detected. In what kind of conflict is this realistic?

Many think the future of naval warfare will trend away from aircraft carriers, towards stealthy, single platforms that can enter the combat zone unescorted, take and hold territory (sea, air and land space via power projection), destroy targets, and stay on station for an extended period (months) to ensure victory. Directed energy weapons will play a role.

Mr. Steamers arguments towards aircraft, UAV’s, and “barges with 155’s” can either accomplish few or none of those objectives, currently. They are strawman arguments. I believe he is only being cynical, however.

Rest assured I believe the LCS program to be a titanic, reeking pork barrel failure and disgrace. The deliberate choosing of two completely different ships to fulfill the same role makes me reject the entire program as fraud, out of hand. The myriad failures of the system merely add salt to the public wound.

The Zumwalt class ships have the potential to revolutionize naval warfare, and deserve a chance to do so, I believe.

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;192997] In what kind of conflict is this realistic?[/QUOTE]

That was exactly my point. There is no point to those vessels.

Cheap flying machines can do the job far better for exponentially less cash transferred from the taxpayer to the threat mongers.

The purpose of the stealthiness is to reduce, not eliminate the ships detectable signature, reducing the threat envelope of enemy weapons systems.

Unescorted strike missions away from the fleet are a standard mission of destroyers. Could they be overwhelmed in a total war scenario? Of course. Any ship can be defeated. That doesn’t mean we scrap the fleet and go home.

When we have all-seeing, autonomous, unkillable, permanently flying hunter killer drones carrying nation destroying ordnance, that can also land and intimidate enemies and hold real ground or seaspace, then yes, we can scrap the Navy and go to “cheap flying machines”.

[QUOTE=Slick Cam;193001]When we have all-seeing, autonomous, unkillable, permanently flying hunter killer drones carrying nation destroying ordnance, that can also land and intimidate enemies and hold real ground or seaspace, then yes, we can scrap the Navy and go to “cheap flying machines”.[/QUOTE]

I think we have had that capability for quite a while now.

Not that the capability is any value to us. We haven’t “won” any of the hundreds of little wars we’ve been in since 1945. We’ve just lost a hell of a lot of good men and women and an incalculable amount of our national treasure.

I don’t disagree with most of this. However our currents UAV’s have nowhere near the capabilities you credit them for. If they did we would be omniscient and omnipotent.

[QUOTE=c.captain;192991]seriously…what do you think?[/QUOTE]

I’m not on Twitter or Facebook, so I have no way of knowing what Capt. Trump will do or say about anything.