USS Milwaukee Broke Down and undTow

http://scoopdeck.navytimes.com/2015/12/12/the-navys-newest-ship-breaks-down-limps-into-port/

I was not sure which area to post in, so I figured would fit here as it is an Engineering Problem.

Seems pretty strange to have Metal show up in one strainer then have the same problem with the other side causing a total loss of Propulsion! Someone’s ass is going to in a wringer over this.

Maybe c.captain will be able to add his thoughts. can keep his blood pressure enough to be able to post.

Nice shot of the tow. I was in Little Creek one time and walking near the fleet tugs and salvage vessels. Popular bumper sticker on the crews cars…“You blow it, we tow it”. Seems very much the case.

I didn’t know they built a fifth LCS ship…how many more are they planning on building?

[QUOTE=Ctony;175220]I didn’t know they built a fifth LCS ship…how many more are they planning on building?[/QUOTE]

According to the article about those mine drones, they plan to build a total of 32, so 27 more.

You would think that the Navy would extensively test a prototype before committing to so many vessels that are such a unconventional design.
Still hoping the new Zumwalt destroyer exceeds all expectations as a capable warship.

[QUOTE=salt’n steel;175242]You would think that the Navy would extensively test a prototype before committing to so many vessels that are such a unconventional design.
Still hoping the new Zumwalt destroyer exceeds all expectations as a capable warship.[/QUOTE]

With a previous employer, I was involved with some ops when the Freedom and Independence first went into service. They had lots of problems with everything under the sun.

Interesting. . . I guess there were no problems during Trials? Or covered up? At first blush, a lubrication issue. . . of course knowing if the filters with debris were the gear box lube or engine. . . I would guess gear box. . .

Meanwhile the USCG’s National Security Cutter design is doing quite well and could most likely provided what the navy needed in the first place.

absolutely. They seem to be well designed and suited for their task and could be easily re-designed to meet the needs of the navy as a frigate.

The fact that I haven’t heard about the nsc in the news is a good thing.

Was trying to find the exact actual propulsion train arrangement for the Freedom class LCS to see why a total and ongoing loss of propulsion would be possible on the Milwaukee.

From what I have found so far it has 4 prime movers (2 Rolls Royce gas turbines and 2 Colt-Pielstick diesel engines) and 4 water jets, 2 of which (apparently the inboard ones) are steerable.

Not familiar with the speed (RPM) of a water jet impeller but this would imply a reduction gear for at least the gas turbine driven jets and most likely the diesel driven ones as well. Some kind of clutch arrangement would also seem to be required for prime mover starting.

However, one story includes the following:
[I]“The crew cleaned the combining gear filters following established procedures, but locked the port shaft as a precautionary measure to prevent possible shaft damage. Thursday evening, while conducting routine steering checks, the ship lost pressure in the starboard combining gear lube oil system. The casualty was due to similar metallic debris contamination of the filter.”[/I]

Locking a “port” shaft and talking about a “stbd” shaft doesn’t make immediate sense to me with 4 jets 4 prime movers? Do these gear boxes have two outputs?

Then I found this SNAME paper abstract:
[I]The USS Freedom propulsion system consists of a quartet of waterjets driven by a combined diesel and gas turbine (CODAG) power plant through a complex shafting system. The two propulsion shafting systems (port and starboard) each have a gas turbine and/or a diesel engine coupled to “combining reduction gearbox.” The combining reduction gearbox drives a “splitter reduction gearbox” through a “gear coupling lineshaft.” The splitter reduction gearbox, in turn, drives two waterjets via a “boost waterjet*lineshaft” and a “steerable waterjet lineshaft.” The boost waterjet lineshaft is concentric with the inboard quill shaft of the splitter reduction gearbox and is engaged via an overhanging clutch. The diesel engines, gearboxes, and gas turbines are resiliently mounted. There are four different shafting arrangements with a total of 28 support bearings, four gearboxes, two over-hanging clutches, and four axial (longitudinal) flexible couplings. The gear coupling lineshaft operates at over 1400 RPM and is supported by bearings with a relatively high bearing load influence number to load ratio. All these factors present unique challenges to the installation and alignment of the shafting system.[/I]

Hey what could go wrong with this arrangement? With metal in two of gearbox filters I would say the “unique challenges to the installation and alignment of the shafting system” were not entirely overcome.

The very concept which would seem to have been intended to provide redundancy (by allowing either prime mover to power either jet and to have a port starboard system) has injected a complexity in design and construction that resulted in having 4 working prime movers and 4 water jets an not being able to run even one set to get home.

Also found an earlier propulsion loss incident on the lead ship the Freedom which seemed to be related to the SSDG’s being lost and that affecting propulsion until they got more generators on line.

See http://archive.navytimes.com/article/20130722/NEWS04/307220003/LCS-Freedom-suffers-propulsion-loss-sea

where this can be found:
[I]The initial problem was traced to turbocharger exhaust leaks on the No. 2 ship service diesel generator (SSDG), one of four generators that supply the ship with electrical power. Further examination after the power loss found similar problems on the No. 3 generator.

Problems with load shedding, or reducing electrical power to avoid overloading the generators, also were found, Doss said in the statement.

After a brief period of single generator operations, the crew brought more generators online and then brought the engines back online, restoring propulsion.[/I]

and this:

[I]The Littoral Combat Ship (LCS-1) USS Freedom’s ship service diesel generators (SSDG) continue to give the vessel fits, recently causing the LCS to lose propulsion briefly while heading out to participate in at-sea exercises off the coast of Singapore and forcing it to return to port, the U.S. Navy says.[/I]

at:
http://aviationweek.com/defense/uss-freedom-loses-regains-propulsion-0

One can’t help but notice the rather strong opposition to this program on gcaptain threads but if it is gobbling this loudly and often maybe it is a turkey.

[QUOTE=KPChief;175779]One can’t help but notice the rather strong opposition to this program on gcaptain threads but if it is gobbling this loudly and often maybe it is a turkey.[/QUOTE]

of course they are FUCKING TURKEYS and an utterly ridiculous waste of money but they are now a monster that cannot be killed by anyone including the Secretary of Defense because Marinette and Austal own too many congressmen to keep the hideous monster alive and growing as it gobbles unbelievable amounts of federal funding!

[B]U.S. Defense Secretary Calls for Naval Shipbuilding Cuts[/B]

By MarEx 2015-12-17 15:57:51

Defense Secretary Ash Carter has issued a general memo regarding U.S. Navy fleet size, calling for procurement to meet the service branch’s target of 308 vessels but suggesting that the number should not be “irresponsibly exceeded.”

“For the last several years, the Department of the Navy has overemphasized resources used to incrementally increase total ship numbers at the expense of critically-needed investments . . . this has resulted in unacceptable reductions to the weapons, aircraft, and other advanced capabilities that are necessary to defeat and deter advanced adversaries,” he wrote.

Instead of the shipbuilding investments, Secretary Carter called for upgrades to the American submarine fleet, the procurement of thirty additional fighters and a variety of additional electronic warfare systems updates.

For some naval shipyards the news will come as a blow. Secretary Carter called for cutting orders for Littoral Combat Ships and frigates from 52 down to 40, consistent with needs outlined in the Navy’s own analysis. The cut would be made by selecting one LCS variant out of the two current models starting in 2019. The LCS vessels are made by yards in Marinette, Wisconsin and Mobile, Alabama, and the Austal yard in Mobile is one of the city’s largest employers.

[B][U]Congressman Bradley Byrne of Alabama issued a defiant statement in response to Secretary Carter’s memo.[/U][/B]

“Make no mistake about it, from Mobile to Marinette, from San Diego and Jacksonville, the bell has rung, and those in the Pentagon need to hear that this will not stand. Not just for our ship yards but also for our Navy and for the defense of the people of the United States of America . . . [B][U]Congressional support for the LCS is incredibly strong,” he said. [/U][/B]

The two LCS designs cost in the range of $440 million per ship, and have elicited controversy over their flexible weapons packages, one of which – the remotely operated minesweeping package – has been said to have a high failure rate in the field. The aluminum-hulled variant built by Austal has also faced questions regarding its firepower, hull strength and survivability.

THE FUCKING FILTH AND STENCH OF RAMPANT CORRUPTION PERVADES OUR NATION’S CAPITAL TO LEVELS YOU DON’T EVEN FIND IN ZIMBABWE OR PAKISTAN!

btw…here was one person’s (not me) comments to this story and could not be better stated

kapena16

“…Congressman Bradley Byrne of Alabama issued a defiant statement in response to Secretary Carter’s memo…”

“…For some naval shipyards the news will come as a blow…”

The few elite shipyards building platforms for our US navy (and USCG) are delivering a product that usually is replete with problems, vastly over budget, and handed over months, if not years behind schedule. In short, you’re doing a terrible job. Here’s a thought, your hubris about your position in America’s shipbuilding industry, reminds me of what Detroit was like in the '70’s. Look at that city today. I’m certain the execs back then, never imagined a time in America when Detroit would look like it does today, a failed industrial cesspool.

Have we learned anything from that experience?

Yard owners pour campaign contributions down the dark wormhole of congressional coffers, to coerce politicians like Byrne to come to their defense and continue the status quo. The handful of yards left in the US that can build large ocean going ships are being singled out by a growing disgruntled segment of our (mostly landlocked) population. The Jones Act is coming under increasing pressure to be overhauled, if not completely dumped. Meanwhile, my fellow US civilian mariners stand by, correctly defending the benefits of the Jones Act, in spite of the embarrassing performance by (some) of our shipyards that all too often deliver a navy minesweeper…that cannot sweep for mines. Imagine that?

It’s time for a new paradigm. Now. The current democrat run administration of the last two terms in the White House has (surprisingly) shown little love for our industry. Realistically, we are looking at the likelihood of the next eight years being under republican control, top to bottom. If there ever was a time for the possible repeal, modification, or amending of the Jones Act by a republican controlled Washington DC, it’s staring us in the face today. I suggest the leadership at the pentagon, shipyards, and congress embrace this reality and take a decisive course change from what we have been doing in the past.

The wholesale abuse of taxpayer dollars on military spending, especially on naval seagoing platforms, is directly impacting the civilian component of US shipbuilding. If our industry cannot acknowledge this reality and more importantly change it, it will be changed by political and economic forces from outside our industry. When that happens, there will be no positive outcome for any of us. I do not want to live in a city like Detroit.

What ever happened to that news segment a few years ago called “Fleecing of America”? I can’t imagine a more suitable topic.

[QUOTE=salt’n steel;175810]What ever happened to that news segment a few years ago called “Fleecing of America”? I can’t imagine a more suitable topic.[/QUOTE]

We aren’t being fleeced, we are being skinned alive. We are collapsing under the weight and stench of political corruption that definine American politics and industry. The only people who can change things are the same ones who benefit most from the corruption that is destroying us. We are a nation of fleeced sheep lead by kleptocrats who have no sense of shame, and no sense of duty to those they claim to represent.

[QUOTE=Steamer;175811]We aren’t being fleeced, we are being skinned alive. We are collapsing under the weight and stench of political corruption that definine American politics and industry. The only people who can change things are the same ones who benefit most from the corruption that is destroying us. We are a nation of fleeced sheep lead by kleptocrats who have no sense of shame, and no sense of duty to those they claim to represent.[/QUOTE]

True and the ruling class paying the kleptocrats to fleece the country do a masterful job of convincing voters to vote against their best interest and turn working folks against each other via TV “news” , red state vs blue state etc. As the robber baron Jay Gould said,“I can pay half the working people to kill the other half.” Robber barons that collapsed the economy in 2008, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc., got 13+ trillion dollars in bailouts but people only hear about bailing out GM and think people buying houses they couldn’t afford caused the collapse which the world still hasn’t recovered from. It’s a sad testament of the results of an uneducated populace.

[QUOTE=tengineer1;175813]It’s a sad testament of the results of an uneducated populace.[/QUOTE]

otherwise known as “bread and circuses” for the plebeian masses.

enough food so the population isn’t starving and so many ridiculous diversions that the masses don’t see the machinations of the powerplayers to undermine their potential prosperity vis.

and

if there was any single force destroying the very fabric of the Nation it is television! A FESTERING OOZING RIVER OF SEWAGE…ALL OF IT!

OUR PHUCKING COUNTRY IS A LAND OF MORONS, PHOOLS AND IDIOTS WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE TODAY WHICH IS COMPLETE CORPORATE CONTROL!

.

[QUOTE=tengineer1;175813]True and the ruling class paying the kleptocrats to fleece the country do a masterful job of convincing voters to vote against their best interest and turn working folks against each other via TV “news” …[/QUOTE]

That and the far right whackjob radio jocks who have for years convinced the victims of our corrupt “leadership” that it is the fault of those who try to stop the political/industrial/military circle jerk that has kept them in economic servitude for decades.

It is not just lack of education, it is an incredibly gullible and stupid mass of ignorant people who are brainwashed for hours each day.

Dammit William Devane says if I put my money in a gold backed IRA I’ll be ok. Donald Trump says we need to build a wall around the country to keep the immigrants out so they won’t steal our gold. Alex Jones says the govt stole all the gold and gave it to the ChiComs to build an island in the pacific with a stargate. Once we open the stargate the world will be able to use the alien life extension technology to live happily ever after. Until the Aliens on the other side build a wall around the stargate to keep us from getting our hands on their space guns. Unless we can find sympathetic aliens who will lets us through the stargate. Then we can get enough numbers in the alien world to tip the balance in local elections. We can then institute Unitarian sharia law and subjugate them all.

Fraq, I think you are spending too much time in that hot tub.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;175833]Fraq, I think you are spending too much time in that hot tub.[/QUOTE]

And too much of that shweet brown party liquor

btw, that happened to that filthy mouthed squid we have all come to tolerate?

Don’t even ask