I do think highly of your service to our beloved Merchant Marine. I have a soft spot for good engineers. I also think highly of the students accomplishments after graduating from USMMA. Senators, Congressmen, Astronauts, Masters, Jet and ship pilots, etc,etc. The list goes on. And still provide SSO officers in case of need to navigate our depleting fleet in times of war.
But they donât and they wonât. How many state school graduates are actually licensed officers?
About 4x as many as KP in any year. Thatâs not a good argument for the KP camp.
I am going to stay on the sideline since I have been a strong KP supporter. But itâs hard to argue with historical facts as presented
Tengineer1,They have been doing that for many years. The course/Major is called âLogisticsâ. My sons major and does container work in our not elaborate port of Norfolk, but a major player in east coast operations⌠In between his Naval Reserve and sailing commitments. Lt such and such is doing his part and then some to honor his promise.to the USMMA. He also went 13-1 with his 6A football team contributing to our youth/high school sports.A few of his football pals are also doing the same in our area. Saw a few of them this past weekend. They all honored their five year commitment, and serve their community quite well.
So you think that if the annual budget from Marad to operate KP were to be split equally amongst the state academies with the proviso that each one had to offer in state tuition to cover all 50 states, they wouldnât jump at the chance for that money? Iâm inclined to think otherwise.
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If five schools are graduating 5x as many licensed officersâŚ
Instead of spouting all the bs - how about someone getting the actual graduation rates from all of the State schools.
And also make sure that you only count those who graduate with a 3rd Mate or 3rd Engineerâs license.
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Well said sir. No KP grad leaves without a license , whether engine or deck⌠Check the number/percentages of the state schools licensed graduation rate⌠You may be surprised or choose to ignore KPâs success as opposed to state schools.
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This is not a question of graduation rates or %s. Each of the SMA graduate approx 100+ grads a year as mates or engineers. Those are the numbers. Your a making a losing argument. Your better argument would be SSO production. That is clearly in KPâs favor. I would stay away from number of licensed officer production. As I said I wanted to stay on the sideline but you pulled me into an argument I donât want to debate.
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Thatâs because KP only has License bearing Degrees. State schools have surpassed their original mission and now graduate professionals to work in the shoreside maritime industry as engineers and maritime business managers. Even so the state schools graduate far more.
As for SSO, the only reason KP will win that one is that it is mandatory, where as at the state schools you have to take on significant extra burden(participating in both the ROTC Battalion as well as the normal regiment of cadets) to participate with a small stipend (few thousand/semester) to compensate. At KP it is baked in to their program with complete coverage of tuition costs as benefit.
Thats a good thing for KP. Quite a few state school guys tried to get in, were passed over for whatever reason. Many professionals come from KP as well. State schools have a much lower rate of graduating licensed mariners. The ones that actually do obtain a license are fine people. I and my son have sailed with more than a few good people from state schools. No animosity here sir.
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This in itself is evidence that KPâs model is flawed if we still want to keep going with this obviously triggering topic for some of the members.
I attended a state school when the policy was the same as KPâs. Every person at the school was required to get a license and participate in the regiment. The problem was, there just wasnât the demand for licensed officers nor the desire to go through the program to keep it sustainable. Years after I finished, the model was changed to allow non license track students in order to save the school from insolvency.
And yeah. Iâm one of those state school guys who sailed. Still am. Currently I have zero officers onboard my ship who attended KP. I canât speak to exact statistics and graduation rates, but my personal observation is that I see far more state school officers afloat than KP. So again the question could be asked, what is the mission of the US Merchant Marine Academy and is it time to re-imagine that mission?
The reality is there is only one mission that might justify the continued existence of KP. That mission would be to convert the facilities to an open maritime university with the sole purpose of providing recurrent and upgrade training to existing licensed and unlicensed mariners.
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I share Steamerâs exact sentiments. Continuing education for existing license marinerâs would be the best way to support the industry and grow our maritime workforce.
Heck even put in place a graduate level education in International Trade or Maritime Business. There is no longer a need for undergrad level license degrees or a âFederal Service Academyâ at KP. That purpose evaporated decades ago. There is still a need to grow, educate, train, and expand our industry though.
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I met a very good former head coach for Suny while son was working out for Navy in Annapolis.We went to a few very nice institutions on the recruiting path. He mentioned ROTC for financial help. After sending film to KP (After the workout) Coach Toop from KP wanted to interview my son. I put him on a plane to NYC after his state wrestling tournament a few weeks later. (Got fourth as a heavy 30 lbs underweight.} No , I didnât go with him. His decision, his future. I already knew what all the maritime schools were about. Picked up son after the visit with the exciting news he was offered a full ride. One question CoachToop asked him was âWhy would you pick the other schools over us?, We have so many opportunities to do whatever you want.â. . By the way, graduated 11th in his class at KP. Best decision HE ever made. Sailed for a bit, still honoring his service requirement, and giving back to his community.
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Little Domer, higher education was available until some political thing happened. I attended a few of the courses through my company before that happened. BRM was managed by KP and local pilots. We learned a lot from each other. Simulators were not as graphic as they are now, been to a few. Norfolk, Newport, and KP were cartoons then in my opinion. That was the early technology at the time. The personal interaction with the folks that actually got their hands dirty was PRICELESS.
Does he have a younger brother named Beaver?
Your absolutely right on the SSO statement. My point in raising it was to correct the misunderstanding on the number of licensed grads from the SMA side.
The government gets a lot more SSOs from KP because the pay for that resource as you point out. SSOs are needed for the emergency plans. How effective are those plans and how realistic are those plans remains to be seen. In Desert Storm many were activated but never deployed because the unions crewed the ships effectively. Didnât need the junior grade ssos. Especially if they didnât have steam experience.
Anyway, someone in the pentagon believes we need those resources. They may or may not be right. But I donât doubt that there is an argument to be made that KP providing those resources per the strategic plan
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Perhaps take a look at the latest âStrategic planâ. It may surprise you.
I am confused with your statement. Do you mean there are kids there (at KP) that pay?
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