They are going to scrap her on site now.
I am still mystified why they had to buzz by the reef to start with. It reminds me of the Costa Concordia disaster.
I will sling load your boat under my Huey and set it down anywhere you like, young Captain
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);96063]When these incompetent naval officers screw up and spend millions of tax payer $$ they should be held accountable to the fullest. But, in the end the USN made a shore side job for the C/O. I suppose so he could stay around and do his 20.[/QUOTE]
Two close friends of mine are former minesweep COs, and are extraordinary officers. My former boss was the 1-star who took charge of the scene after Port Royal ran aground and was undoubtably the most extraordinary officer I ever worked with. He has a second star now and is in charge of Navy Region Southwest. The Navy is damn lucky to have him.
OBTW, my former roommate is on scene and in charge of the salvage of the Guardian.
Generalizing naval officers as incompetent is insulting and ignorant.
[QUOTE=renoun;96582] In case you had doubts about the watch-standing there were two decent radar targets as shown in these photos so we aren’t talking about a failure to observe submerged or barely awash reefs. [/QUOTE]
It is possible that they were just not paying attention but I think the situation with the inaccurate chart would create a very difficult challenge for any navigation team, particularly if there rain squalls or fishing vessels to complicate the radar or visual picture.
The (incorrect) information provided by the electronic chart would create confidence that the situation was understood. The contradictory visual and radar information on the other hand would be evaluated as it was reported in bit and pieces without building a picture and more likely would have just confused the team rather then overturned their understanding created by the chart. It seems unlikely someone would, for example, take a bearing on the light and then realize that there was a problem with the chart.
K.C.
[QUOTE=rob;96605]Generalizing naval officers as incompetent is insulting and ignorant.[/QUOTE]
that’s all fine but somebody fucked up here and BAD!
Some photos with perspective.
[ATTACH]2855[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2856[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2857[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2858[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2859[/ATTACH]
[QUOTE=c.captain;96758]that’s all fine but somebody fucked up here and BAD![/QUOTE]
Of course, but most of the third mates and a lot of the second mates and some of the chief mates I get rely 100% on the GPS about 99% of the time. They will drive the ship to the GPS waypoint come hell or high water. I don’t think a reef between the ship and the waypoint would deter most of them Not till they ran up on it anyway.
I don’ have much faith that most of them would even bother to look out the window and if the reef showed up on radar where it wasn’t expected they would turn up the sea/rain return till it disappeared off the display.
K.C.
How did their radar not pick that up? Almost as bad as the captain of the exxon valdez not seeing alaska floating in front of him…
I hope you realize that that is a bullshit statement.
[QUOTE=commtuna;96774]How did their radar not pick that up? Almost as bad as the captain of the exxon valdez not seeing alaska floating in front of him…[/QUOTE]
Are you for real!!! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
[QUOTE=Tugs;96791]Are you for real!!! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.[/QUOTE]
Well, tuna, the ball is in your court.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;96765]Of course, but most of the third mates and a lot of the second mates and some of the chief mates I get rely 100% on the GPS about 99% of the time. They will drive the ship to the GPS waypoint come hell or high water. I don’t think a reef between the ship and the waypoint would deter most of them Not till they ran up on it anyway.
I don’ have much faith that most of them would even bother to look out the window and if the reef showed up on radar where it wasn’t expected they would turn up the sea/rain return till it disappeared off the display.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
We had a mate do exactly that - at 15 knots. Waypt to Waypt - never gave it a thought. Apparently.
Stopped the ship in a half ship length -everyone standing at the moment fell down. Buggered every bit of the keel from the bow to the end of the skg.
Wanker.
It was a joke. Relax everyone.
[QUOTE=commtuna;96856]It was a joke. Relax everyone.[/QUOTE]
I knew that…you’ll all note that commtuna’s comment did not bring out the omnipotent pointy stick. That is because use of the pointy stick must be wielded judiciously and only bona fide certified BS gets to feel its wrath so beware all ye who might wish to test its mighty power!
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;96754]It is possible that they were just not paying attention but I think the situation with the inaccurate chart would create a very difficult challenge for any navigation team, particularly if there rain squalls or fishing vessels to complicate the radar or visual picture.
The (incorrect) information provided by the electronic chart would create confidence that the situation was understood. The contradictory visual and radar information on the other hand would be evaluated as it was reported in bit and pieces without building a picture and more likely would have just confused the team rather then overturned their understanding created by the chart. It seems unlikely someone would, for example, take a bearing on the light and then realize that there was a problem with the chart.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
Cripes, I’m confused, must be my age !
[QUOTE=commtuna;96856]It was a joke. Relax everyone.[/QUOTE]
Not to fret, I like you, tuna, but I am in my Dotage.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;96905]Cripes, I’m confused, must be my age ![/QUOTE]
The same thing happens in engineering. Say you are troubleshooting a system or equipment and you are 100% sure you know what is wrong. Maybe you have a sophisticated engine analyzer, past experience or some such. But then the 1 A/E tell you he’s made a measurement or read a gauge which does not fit or contradicts your theory of what’s wrong. You don’t immediately switch your theory about what’s wrong. You think most likely the gauge is reading incorrectly or the 1st has measured wrong, it happens all the time. It’s very difficult to abandon you old theory and rebuild a new one when the information is confusing.
In the case of the grounding the electronic chart showed them clear of the reef. Radar returns can be explained away as rain showers or just errors. Information which doesn’t fit the picture doesn’t enlighten, it confuses.
Another example is the “first impressions” Once people have made up their mind about someone it hard to change it.
K.C.
Well I suppose then all the " extraordinary " naval officers go around fixing the screw ups of the ones that aren’t. Have I seen good naval officers in the 30 years I worked around them? Sure. But they were the minority and by your own comments here that sounds about right. Over the past year alone there has been a number of naval blunders. Seems the USN really needs to take a look at what they are doing wrong and correct it. And I don’t mean write more instructions and have stand downs.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);96921]Well I suppose then all the " extraordinary " naval officers go around fixing the screw ups of the ones that aren’t. Have I seen good naval officers in the 30 years I worked around them? Sure. But they were the minority and by your own comments here that sounds about right. Over the past year alone there has been a number of naval blunders. Seems the USN really needs to take a look at what they are doing wrong and correct it. And I don’t mean write more instructions and have stand downs.[/QUOTE]
What they are doing wrong…spending too much time and effort on Social Engineering and Navigating their Uniform Regs. Time to get back to fundamentals, but instead things are spinning out of control in the other direction.
The new digital radars do not resolve clusters of small returns such as breakers, flotsam, birds, that the analog radars could clearly display. Assuming this is a government owned ship which always have the latest and greatest, they probably threw their analog radars away in favor of digital and simply saw no returns from the reef.