That’s the Fractured Feckless Maritime Unions.
Do effective unions like the ILWU have different labor rates for every port and ship?
No reason they can’t differ but I think it was a strategy the MEBA was going to use in case they had to bring OSG to arbitration AGAIN to squeeze out a pay raise for these guys. MEBA would probably hammer out a raise with ATC then later during negotiations for the veteran class MEBA would go in with the same raises/ level offered to the Alaskan class. OSG would obviously push back on the MEBA could bring them to arbitration and say hey OSG agreed ATC/OSG are the same units for the NLRB and here’s everything they said such as the jobs and units being therefore the raises should be the same.
OSG was always going to fight against the ATC and OSG being separate units because would be a potentially harder union vote to win.
@ChelseaPatterson I saw this in another thread. Lets just hope MMP doesn’t convince every deck officer at OSG and ATC to vote for them and turn around and sell them out.
Bottom line… engineers and deck officers cannot get along.
Individually they might but I am talking groups and group think here.
They will never form a single union… why? because of the fundamental difference in work profiles.
Engineers stay down below and have to keep things moving at all times. That is their job.
Deck officers are managers. Herein is the bone of contention. Engrs don’t like being down below. They might say they do but the don’t or else you would see more C/E’s not sitting on the fat of their asses. You cannot like working with your hands at your convenience.
No engineer should ever be paid more than management PERIOD.
The mechanics of herds.
Ask an engr to join AMO and the answer is a straight up “I AM AN ENGINEER”.
…there are plenty of engineers in AMO.
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That’s aggressive…wow,…you’re probably not even a sailor, or you’re sitting at a dock or in diego garcia
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A lot of the wages you see for jobs in the UK sector are the same (or less) that they were 20+ years ago.
A steady stream of people from Eastern Europe and the Philippines who are willing to work for low wages have kept wages suppressed.
You get better money working for a supermarket than you get working on some ships in the UK sector.
In some cases the hourly pay that Fillipnos and Eastern Europeans accept on a ship operating in the UK sector is less than you would get working in a supermarket in the UK.
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This is exactly what would happen here.
“We arent going to bring in foreigners at a lower price” but you bet OSG captains are going to be making the same $871.57 in 2043 instead of the $1,427 they’d deserve.
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Holy crap, it’s exactly attitudes like that which hold this industry back!!
With not so subtle disparagement like calling mates Deck Officers but not engineers Engine Officers, and pretend that 1A/E and C/E aren’t literally categorized as Management Level just as C/M and Master, or that the modern C/E isn’t just as burdened by ass-sitting amounts of bureaucratic paperwork as the modern Master…it’s no wonder in your experience that mates and engineers don’t get along. Every second behind a desk I longed to be back where the biggest risk to my hands was more than paper cuts and carpel tunnel.
Solidarity and mutual respect are necessary for collaboration and consolidation in unions working together for industry-wide wage growth, and preventing Mr. Norton’s fuckery. But if the above is the prevailing attitude then I’m not so hopeful.
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I can definitely understand why that’s been your experience based on your post. I can’t imagine any engineer wanting to be within 1000 yards of you much less sail with you.
I have a strong suspicion the mates and unlicensed probably feel the same way as well.
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The is the jewel in the crown of ignorant posts.
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What are you on about? That’s the best kind of working with your hands!
That isn’t how supply and demand works. Reality doesn’t care about your fragile feelings
(I’ve seen Bosuns make more than 3M and electricians make more than 3AE too)
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Hey Mr. OSG CEO,
How did your post about bringing in cheap labor work out for you regarding the attraction of
Quality Officers??
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I think you are misreading the intent of the post.
Do not nitpick single statements but a bigger context.
It is about forming one UNION - for Deck / Engineers / pilots.
Effectively the merger of the THREE big ones (with the words OFficers/Engr/Masters/Pilots).
SIU on the unlicensed side does not have that problem since there is a lesser defining line between a WIPER/QMED and an AB Deck/OS. At the lower levels, if you do not like or fit into one category of work, you can switch to another that does not require an endorsement. Please do not nitpick between QMED and AS-Deck. We all know there are differences in endorsements.
As groups, it is about subscribing to group think. As an analogy, I am the engr at home and no brownie points for guessing who the Cap is.
I do the fixing…
To come together as one UNION, there has to be a common purpose of better wages, job security and possibly striking as a LABOR force.
IMHO, that will never happen due to the difference in JOB functions.
Do not insinuate or take cheap personal shots. THIS is about forming ONE UNION without one shafting the other. More so, it is about WHO LEADS this union - An Engr or a Deckie (I left out the verbiage “officer” to avoid contentious chatter).
Get the drift.
Ship MANAGERS (both engr and deckies) are more than happy to deal with the Engr/Deck labor pool splintered the way it is. WHY? Because they are aware of this fundamental irreconcilable difference.
BTW, whether I get along with engrs or licensed or unlicensed is MOOT here. What I do on board is for one SOLE purpose and that only - TO provide for the family. If I make drinking buddies on board along the way, that is a bonus.
And for the record, I get along well with Engrs and Deck but have seen the constant bitching and group think only to realize at a deeper level it is the job profile that creates this divide.
THE M in STEM is Math not management, the E - engineering.
Managers sit at desks. IMHO, Deckies are managers doing menial jobs with high responsibility and a little ship handling.
Please show me one Manager or Boss who works with his hands and is paid less than the the guy getting his hands dirty… and please not UNDERCOVER BOSS.
The unions one and all are run by managers but for whom and what labor pool - herein lies the question to be answered - I’d like to say just OFFICERS even if a STEWARD.
I normally refrain from commenting on subjects like these but I offer this experience. Both the French and German marine jurisdictions tried combined tickets . A good friend, German with a combined ticket sailed as second mate before settling in an engineering role where he retired as a chief engineer.
The French found the hardest billet to fill was chief mate.
In recent years a large ferry and a cruise ship were placed in a perilous situation by engine failure. The cruise ship by engine shutdown because of lube oil levels. The C/Eng. and others in the department had their tickets on the line but so did the master and others in the deck department. The bucks go where the buck stops.
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One officer’s union speaking with one voice for all unionized officers is the way to go. Similar to “The Guild” in Canada.
One Union also in Japan, and Europe.
Nice attempt at backpedaling.
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Lol you’re are a loser.
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