It doesn’t exactly say much though does it.
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He has a point in the fact that we have a crisis.
My biggest issue is you have known this crisis was coming - and gcaptain has written it extensively - For at least the last 10 years… It’s a simple issue of boomers retiring…. Everyone saw coming but neither the shipping companies, unions or government did much to solve the problem.
But now that the crisis is here they want to make up for lost time and push emergency measures that benefit the bottom line?
One thing he says is:
“Immigration as an option is not proposed as a means to use foreign labor to depress wage and benefits or to supplant the existing workforce. Recipients of any such visa would receive wages and benefits as they exist on US flag vessels.”
So let’s recap… You can’t fill your jobs at your current wage/work hour ratio (as previously mentioned, 13.5 hour days are required at OSG), so rather than improve that wage/work hour ratio, you propose to bring in foreign workers willing to accept that wage/work hour ratio and somehow that plan isn’t designed to replace US workers and depress wages and benefits? What a joke.
When OSG has the same wages and work rules as Matson/Maersk/APL and still can’t fill their jobs, then he has a place to start this conversation. Until then, he can fuck right off.
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Raise wages, raise benefits, make the credentialing process easier and more efficient, make it easier for retiring service members with relevant experience to get MMCs, create programs that retain sailing personnel so that people actually advance their license and stay working at sea longer, make it easier to renew, provide government funded training.
Heck if some of those things existed, I might be sailing today instead of my the career path I took after graduating from a state maritime academy almost 10 years go, which lead me to waiting in the union hall for a bit, having no luck, and eventually ending up in the pretty decent shoreside management position I find myself. Sure I make less than I would’ve as a chief mate or captain, but everything else about my position brings me much more job satisfaction.
Edit: If I could take my license out of continuity, without going through a ton of red tape and quickly, make decently more then I currently make, receive some decent benefits without the uncertainty of waiting forever for a job, I’d seriously consider it. People with credentials, waiting around on the beach exist, but the motivation to sail again has to be more attractive then whatever shoreside job they might find.
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I don’s know if 210k for a first is shit money. This is what my buddy just told me he is making.
Everyone everywhere is struggling for Sr officers, not just tankers.
If Adam at MEBA really is as smart as he thinks he is…he is the best chance to actually unify the officers labor pool and bring back the wages and benefits that made our industry interesting to potential labor 30 years ago.
In a related thought…Marad should be disbanded. KP can go to the USN for oversight. New school ships are great, but tell me what else they have done for recruiting or growth in the industry in the last 30 years. Has the promise of new ships increased enrollment at ANY maritime Academy or helped the unlicensed labor pool grow.?
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It’s amazing to me, up until the very end, companies will refuse to take accountability and look within. Instead, they look for outrageous solutions to internal problems. Problems brought upon themselves by their own doing. I started my tanker career with OSG in 2017 before vowing never to put myself through the mental torture that is working for that company again after a few years. I can agree with Mr. Norton’s response on one thing: “simply raising wages will solve all problems fails to address the core issues head on.” He is right, his company is an absolute toxic and cesspool of a place to work for, and it starts with in the office, is carried forward by the senior officers, and makes the rest of their ships living prisons. I am not the only one in this opinion. Look on this forum, look on Reddit, talk to some of the SIU unlicensed, talk to some of the mates who resigned and cured themselves of the Stockholm syndrome, you will find many people who have had the same experience. Do you hear people lashing out and voicing the same concerns with Crowley Tankers, or Seabulk? Even Polar which is basically non union as they are? No, you don’t. Working on a Crowley tanker after subjecting yourself to years with OSG is a therapy I wish for any mariner pursuing this path. It will cleanse you of the constant microscopic micromanagement, belittlement, harassment, bullying, and constant fear of your job if you don’t suck up in all the right ways. Why is it a living hell? You can’t just ask for a relief, you can’t just quit. OSG will pursue every way they can to screw you and your license over. Their solution as it stands? Sit in the lounge and watch 20 hours of the same regurgitated, rehashed, feel good anti harassment videos that you actually only watch a fraction of because there’s more pressing issues at hand. OSG cares about your well being you know, you signed your initials that you completed their SMS healthy workplace training! So yes, I agree with Mr. Norton. Simply raising wages will not work, because you can’t raise them high enough to get quality mariners to deal with the harassment you face at their company. Who will tolerate it? First generation Honduran-Americans and Filipino-Americans who they currently employ. You can bet that they are looking at their crew lists and see this demographic is their most loyal employee. Of course getting more here on work visas is the answer for a work environment such as theirs. Compared to Latin American wages, they will tolerate any kind of bullshit in the world happily, they are feeding multiple families on an AB wage at OSG. I just hope our politicians can read through the lines and shut this down quick, with other reasonable Jones Act friendly CEOs backing why this is a ludicrous proposition.
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I love a good rant but I dont understand this point, impressment went out the window with the American Revolution. Sure, you can’t abandon a vessel on articles, but why cant you quit? There are plenty of jobs on the board at every level.
Agreed nobody is forcing you to stay. As long as people put up with the bad circumstances nothing will change. They have you right where they want.
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Hear hear! The fact that maritime unions select their leadership from among the membership means that those who determine strategy and tactics are shipmates who were the most fun for a run ashore (as if a run ashore even exists today!).
In the meantime, industry selects the best and brightest (for the most part) leaders who know how to negotiate and plan.
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Additionally, if OSG was a part of MMP or AMO, would things materially chafe for the better? Worse? Neither?
Could @Meme.Lord or someone who approaches with a soft pitch try and sit down with Don Marcus or Paul Doell for an interview? I totally understand them not wanting to engage with you John. And that’s not offensive to you it’s just business of not wanting to be embarrassed. Maybe someone else at GCaptain who is less abrasive.
I think at the end of the day they probably want to improve the USMM…I hope. However the unions having a dozen people who make $200k salary and not want to engage media or publish their thoughts on things like this, sucks. Hearing from the people in charge is what matters most.
I get along well with Don and Paul. I get along well with Don and Paul. They will sit down for an interview. They just don’t want it to be recorded on video and that’s not what we are set up for anyway.
But they need to be the one stemming up to the plate, not us, dragging them there.
And a bit of abrasion is important otherwise anyone you interview otherwise people just dance around the questions.
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What percentage of US mariners are currently sailing in union positions? I’m guessing quite low….
Even with a union merger or two…other than eliminating another union for competition , I don’t see the leverage for higher wages or benefits. A recreational boater near the Gulf of Mexico can fart on a pontoon boat and elected officials instantaneously scream for Jones Act waivers. What do you think they would do if a strike were to happen??? Pravda 2.0 (mainstream news agencies), would gladly spread misinformation and public opinion would support the waiver. Can’t say any of the unions have helped themselves either by supporting a President that’s eliminating our industries and handing those jobs to China! Thanks for that btw!
I’m deeply discouraged in any hopes of this industry lasting another generation. Just hoping it remains long enough to retire.
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Just once I would like someone operating in the US Flag world to have a business discussion without waving the “stategic national defense” flag.
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I think the same thing would happen that did when the St Lawrence Seaway workers recently went on strike… the vast majority of Americans did not care. If maritime unions striked the White House would back the efforts and the Anti-Jones Act lobby would do exactly what they always do: get big media headlines and no tangible results for their efforts.
Everyone is scared of the Jones Act being torn apart but the truth is it’s stood up to massive and well coordinated efforts by the likes of @cpgrabow with very little results. You can not forget that the largest contributors to the pro-JA lobby are ship owners and Sam Norton is among their most vocal advocates. Historically it was ship owners on one side and labor on the other but, via the efforts of very well funded Jones Act lobbies, labor and ship owners are now on the same side and we are living in fear. This is good for the JA but is not great for wages and benefits.
The Jones Act is strong and has weathered enormous storms. I’m not suggesting we ignore it but maybe we should dial back the fear?
But there are other options as well. Maybe a strike doesn’t include JA ships?
Also remember that Delta and UPS members didn’t actually go on strike, they just threatened to.
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from some of the comments here - not sure how much of this is an industry issue and how much is an OSG issue. If OSG is lagging the Unions, Crowley, and Polar in wages, conditions, time on. And if those companies are facing as tight a labor market as OSG is, then it may be more an OSG issue than an industry one. Not sure how much of that is true or not.
Second item - Two major reason many of us went to sea - even years ago, the first was money - it was a comparativly lucrative job for us middle class kids, and the second was you had the ability to live anywhere. You were not tied to a commutable distance to your job. Both of those things have changed.
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Id take this with a grain of salt. He’s including his 1.5 hrs of meals in that. It’s a 12 hour day, if you go bell to bell.
Agreed. Sounds like OSG sucks and everyone is acting like they’re trapped in jail. If you have a PIC you can move pretty easily.
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I know you know this, this reply is for those who might be confused:
Report to work at 0600, off for the day at 1930. This spans 13.5 hours. Yes there are 1.5 hours of meals in there (and 2 coffee breaks that are 15-30 min each) but your day is 13.5 hours long.
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Mr. Norton probably has a foreign crewing agent already lined up to provide the mariners. And he has his fingers in the pockets of that company as well. Mr. Norton never misses an opportunity to enrich himself at the expense of his employees and mariners!
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