Two Month Job to deliver US Armed Services Vessel to the Middle East

I’m not trying to shut you up … whine all you like. I was just pointing out how silly it sounds to make all those amazing deductions about a job and the laws that might apply to it.

“If it is a military/public vessel, why doesn’t the military or the government crew it instead of some funky ass crewing agency with a slapped together website?”

It sounds like the military contracted the job. Pretty common practice, well known to maritime professionals. Maybe the agency puts their money to other uses than building fancy websites to impress those who need pictures rather than information?

“But no, they seek professionals. Professionals who won’t put up with a two watch boat on an ocean voyage. Professionals who know better. Professionals who are sick of scammy crap like this.”

So don’t apply for the job if it is beneath your dignity. As a professional with more than 30 years in the industry and one who has seen a few ups and downs in the job market, when jobs were scarce I took whatever was available to upgrade and eat.

If I didn’t have a damn good job right now I would consider taking that trip just for grins and for the adventure. For all the same reasons I have taken a shipload of less than glamorous jobs that filled some niche in my interest in the sea and ships. I have worked 12 on 12 off and didn’t see it as an affront to my professionalism or pride. Professionals just get on with the job and get it done, or choose not to take the job.

“So why don’t you take it and we can put this to rest, while you get none during the voyage.”

I have a better job that I can’t leave for now. Even if I didn’t, I figure I will get all the rest I need when I am dead. In the meantime, there is a whole world of interesting, fun, adventurous, well-paying, novel, educational, and entertaining jobs to be had and that tugboat delivery sounds like one of them. All it takes is a sense of humor and a professional attitude to make it worthwhile. They write books about that sort of trip you know.

I threw my E-mail in with most likely the other thousands. If I get it I will tell you the tells. Man the ones I could tell you about some of the USN cruises. :slight_smile:

Been out of work for almost 3 months. I sure miss the water. :frowning:

Prishi - Do you send an acknowledge on your E-mail account. I tried to send one on the Hyper link and it said it didn’t take or was compatable with hotmail. I went straight to my hotmail account and sent an E-mail and it seemed to accept it, at least I haven’t received a return saying it didn’t take.

I would not worry about the pirates. You will have between 2-8 military person onboard. i don’t know if it will be the Army or Navy.
I guess there are a couple of companies bidding on this because the original person whom contacted me about this, is not the person who posted it on Rigzone.
I already have steady work, so I can not make the trip.

Folks,
(I have put a long-form description of the Prospect on the following web-page:- http://gointerlink.com/manning.htm)

What I love about Internet Forums is that there is a lot of dissent but then it all sorts out in a quick while since there are usually well-balanced people on both sides of the argument. THANK YOU to all those who have answered to keep the sentiment of this Job-Posting positive, and also to those who have doubted the very job and suspect Mickey-Mouse operations - you folks have seeded good conversation which has been responded to by folks on the board. I’ll address a few concerns and can even relate one-on-one, but for the benifit of the board, we should keep discussions on the forum.

Here are the facts of the case (as known to me) and then we can discuss further:-
The US Armed Services need a Tug in Kuwait.
The Contract to move the Vessel has been awarded to a company in the Middle East, by the US Armed Forces.
The Statement of Work includes the simple task of moving the Tug from the US East Coast to Kuwait, and nothing else.
The Tug is NOT pulling anything in tow.
The Tug will not have any Cargo.
The Tug will not have any other personnel on board.
The Tug will not be armed.
The Tug will be moved from US East Coast, via the Gib and the Canal, to Kuwait and delivered.
Once delivery is completed, the contract is OVER.
Crew gets Air-Tickets to fly back home.
End of Story.

Now, Yes, it is a Mid-Eastern Company that is the Employer for the Crew. The Crew gets paid by the Employer, who has, I believe, done previous Govt. Off-Shore Contracts, thus has secured this contract.

The Tug may or may not have other Armed personnel on board, I have no information on this and at this point it is not an issue at all. After all, this is work for the Armed Svcs, thus this can be expected though I personally wouldn’t care about it, if I was joining the Tug. I am not.

Watch-keeping by Master: Yes, I’d too hate it if I was asked to do this. However, that is what I have and nothing more. If there was a legal way it could be ensured that there be 3 watch-keeping Officers in both the Bridge and the Engine Room, we’d do this, but if not needed, the Employers will not provide additional hands. Therefore, on this contract, we have two, doubled up Watches, spread over 24 hours, both on top and down below. Hey, on the positive side, since you are travelling East, you’d be keeping LESS than 24 hours each day to allow for Clocks!! J (Couldn’t resist that!!)

Maintenance work on board:- What maintenance work could be there on a Tug? IF the seas are good, there might be some paint-work, maybe. There could be only minimal maintenance work on decks. In the E/R, whatever is the routine maintenance, that would be there. Once the v/l is secured for Sea, which is within a couple of hours after leaving port, I doubt there will really be any work at all. For this reason, watch-keeping of 12 hours makes ‘some’ sense. The only place you’ll meet traffic is while passing the Rock, for about 24 hours, but the Vessel Traffic Management Scheme should take care of it. As long as the Master is keeping his position and intentions posted and is sending Notices as and when required, he shouldn’t have much of running about the Bridge. The AB would be busy keeping lookouts in Gibralter and in the Mediterranean, for Cross-Traffic. Maneuvering the v/l over auto-pilot could be an option if action is taken in good time, ofcourse!! Just remember to FLY A CLEAN US FLAG when passing Gib!!! And similarly the Suez Canal. Looking at Bunkering, I’d see it happen somewhere around Gib. Don’t take my word for it, please – not at this point!! Once you have bunkered, you are off to Port Said. You pick up that light 33 miles away, in good visibility, and drop anchor for your Canal Transit. When the Suez Pilot comes on board, you start up and move the 10 hour passage to Port Suez, to then towards Aden and you then turn the corner towards Muscat. Give all your Notices, move towards Bandar Abbas and enter the Persian Gulf. Do the 500-odd miles up towards Kuwait. You are met with the people who now take your ride away from you!!! You purchase your duty-free and get on board a flight to home!! Really. As simple as that! Now, we do want EXPERIENCED hands who have crossed the Oceans multiple times. Who don’t get scared looking at white-horses, who know how to read weather reports and adjust Course to avoid weather and seas, who know how to do their duties, and who can encourage the Crew to enjoy the trip while executing their duties. We similarly need a C/E who can plan the maintenance with the Main Engines running at all times, who can plan the load on the Engine for different Sea States and can economize on the consumption! Now, those are the BASIC JOBS of those Ranks. I really don’t see much work at Sea!! (Oh! How I wish I was the one on the boat!!) This is the reason why we need that Ocean Endorsement – yes it is a requirement, and the Employers also have a strict 5 year requirement for Experience for the Master and C/E.

Towing Endorsement:- People have asked for that. Why should the Tug need this? The Tug is NOT on Salvage duty. The Tug is only making a passage across the Oceans and is not offering up its services for Towage/Salvage. And, as far as Search & Rescue, it is the obligation of the Tug to assist a Vessel in Distress. However, it has NO Obligation to start towing a vessel in distress!! (As if Towing would relieve the Vessel in distress, from its distress!!!?) Therefore, there is NO need for Towing Endorsement Crew. On this board, thankfully we have people watching out and clearing misconceptions and clarifications from them is more helpful than from me! Thank you!!

Something fishy about the whole thing? Come on! I’d say that about anything!! Grow up, is all I’d say!!

Pirates on a small free-board, slow-speed vessel? Yeah Right! Yes, Actually! Good Point! Only, that there are no pirates in any of the Regions this tug is going, till it reaches Somalia North Coast. Now, I shouldn’t be bragging, but the North Coast has enough Naval Coverage as the waters are narrow and can be covered. However, you do have a point, but you are NOT the only tug in those waters. I’d recommend not flying any US flags at that point – which you’d not do at Sea, anyway. You’ll hear more about this at the briefing.

If you have not already seen the link above, please visit it and see that there is a Familiarization of the Crew before the Voyage begins. I think it is being done in the right way. At this point, if there are any suggestions, to prep for the Voyage, I’d like to hear and will suggest back up my chain. Please feel free to contribute concrete suggestions!

The Contract is short. It could be over in around 45 days. That’s the only bad part!! But it is an easy bit of income for anyone looking for work!

Man,wish I could go

That had me laughing for a good minute.

Thank you very much for the reasoned and calm response to my own questions derived from cynicism born of my 30 years at sea. You have my respect, sir.

Doug

[quote=dougpine;21953]That had me laughing for a good minute.

Thank you very much for the reasoned and calm response to my own questions derived from cynicism born of my 30 years at sea. You have my respect, sir.

Doug[/quote]

Well said Doug.

Whomever takes this trip be sure to take a few cartons of Marlboros for the Suez pilots. (Don’t ask me how I know this)

I’m curious on how a foreign company ends up with this contract and where this tender may have been posted.

[B]I am interested and qualified for Cook position, just sent you an email. Cheers![/B]
:smiley:

[quote=dougpine;21953]That had me laughing for a good minute.

Thank you very much for the reasoned and calm response to my own questions derived from cynicism born of my 30 years at sea. You have my respect, sir.

Doug[/quote]

Warmest Regards, Sir!

I am very aware that this cynicism is rooted in the affection for the career you’ve enjoyed and have been proud of, and are now doing your bit for “looking out” for the young persons!! YOU have all my respect! Thank you for your comments!

Prateek

[quote=dougpine;21953]
[I]“Thank you very much for the reasoned and calm response to my own questions derived from cynicism born of my 30 years at sea.[/I]” [/quote]

Cynicism?

[I]“Their obvious lack of knowledge of the laws governing towing vessels, and their ridiculous 12 hour demands make me want to stay away.”[/I]

Sorry to bust up the lovefest but that statement was just plain ordinary mean and ignorant and was representative of the attitude that I addressed in my post.

What I found incredible is that the gurus here put up such a negative smokescreen around a job that quite a few of the readers would probably fall all over themselves to take. That is the sort of job that teaches a young sailor far more than the job description. The lack of encouragement and outright misinformation and fundamental lack of basic knowledge is what I found most amazing and led me to comment.

[quote=captjoe;21958]Well said Doug.

Whomever takes this trip be sure to take a few cartons of Marlboros for the Suez pilots. (Don’t ask me how I know this)

I’m curious on how a foreign company ends up with this contract and where this tender may have been posted.[/quote]

Last time I went through the Marlboro Canal it took 30 cartons…

[quote=Steamer;21970]Cynicism?

[I]“Their obvious lack of knowledge of the laws governing towing vessels, and their ridiculous 12 hour demands make me want to stay away.”[/I]

Sorry to bust up the lovefest but that statement was just plain ordinary mean and ignorant and was representative of the attitude that I addressed in my post.

What I found incredible is that the gurus here put up such a negative smokescreen around a job that quite a few of the readers would probably fall all over themselves to take. That is the sort of job that teaches a young sailor far more than the job description. The lack of encouragement and outright misinformation and fundamental lack of basic knowledge is what I found most amazing and led me to comment.[/quote]

Steamer, would you risk your hard earned license by taking an American Crew, on an American Flag Vessel, with American issued documentation on a voyage over 600 nm. which will take over 72 hrs. with only manning enough for 12 hr. watches when that type of voyage clearly calls for three separate watches of 8 hrs… and just for the adventure of it? I was not even allowed to depart US waters without proper manning, and completed crew lists if my voyage plan terminated in a foreign port. I would love to make the trip myself but would not throw off a line unless the COI is correct. Did you allow 12 hr watches in the ECR during Ocean Crossings? I had to run a three watch system in the Great Lakes on a similar sized tug on runs I made between Chicago and Buffalo,NY…

[quote=Steamer;21970]Cynicism?

[I]“Their obvious lack of knowledge of the laws governing towing vessels, and their ridiculous 12 hour demands make me want to stay away.”[/I]

[/quote]

I’ll say it again, I think it is indeed ridiculous to require a professional [I][B]deck [/B][/I]officer to run across an ocean on a two watch system. Just because it may or may not be a “public vessel” has nothing to do with the fact that it is unsafe to make such a journey undermanned. I understand that it is different for you engineering types, as you’re able to nap in the galley while you’re on watch, and so working a two watch system is easier on you than it is for a guy up on the bridge. And, I don’t have a problem with 12 and 12 watches on a domestic vessel, I’ve done 'em on OSVs many times. It is the 6 and 6 that I have real issues with. But I wouldn’t do either crossing an ocean. It just isn’t safe.

You’ll notice the “make [I][B]me[/B][/I] want to stay away” part of what I wrote, and I hope you’ll understand that I was speaking for myself and not for you or anyone else. If you want to encourage a young mariner to compromise his career by undertaking such a voyage you have that privilege. But I’ll call you out on it every time.

To be quite clear, there continue to be attacks on merchant vessels even in the IRTC (Internationally Recognized Transit Corridor) in the Gulf of Aden. Yes, there is a large naval presence, but they can’t be everywhere and the pirates know that. The pirates are also flexible with the when and where. One evening around 1700, we started hearing distress calls concerning up to 10 skiffs approaching and attacking vessels around Bab el Mandeb (the mouth of the Red Sea) - by the time it was all over we heard calls from 5 individual ships. At no time, was there a naval unit close enough to respond - in fact there were many comments on VHF 16 commenting to that fact. To take a low freeboard, slow vessel through that area with such a blase attitude is a recipe for a hijacking. Once the pirates are onboard, you are on your own, as the naval forces will not stage an operation to try to retake the vessel - even if you are a government owned vessel. American flag or no American flag, a vessel such as this is a target - these aren’t terrorists looking for a U.S. target.

I did a crossing from Honolulu to San Diego in a 88’ LOA tug on a 2 watch system. The OT was excellent! So was the fresh caught grilled Mahi.

Prishi, is there more than one company bidding on this job. Because I received the below message and it was not from your company. And according to my e-mail, there is supposed to be a military presence, and I would guess they are not there to chip or paint:

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Hi Rob,[/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Are you free to speak tomorrow evening ( UK time) / midday-ish (US time)?[/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I’m under some pressure for this initially. I have only spoken with the client today and he needs some CVs through by Tuesday at the latest so they can finalise budgets etc with the top client. The vessel is only due to go in March from Florida to Kuwait with approx 9 crew and between [B][U]2-8 army / navy crew though[/U][/B]. The trip should last approx 47-50 days.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I need a Master (yourself), Mate, Engineer, 2<sup>nd</sup> Engineer, Cook etc and am yet to start trying to find individuals. If you do know anyone who could be suitable or interested, would you mind asking them to forward their CV please?[/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]All crew need to be US citizens / seafarers and qualified according to coast guard requirements. [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I believe there is a national scale of wages in the US . [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial] [/COLOR][/FONT]
[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Regards,[/COLOR][/FONT]

[quote=Steamer;21970]
What I found incredible is that the gurus here put up such a negative smokescreen around a job that quite a few of the readers would probably fall all over themselves to take. That is the sort of job that teaches a young sailor far more than the job description. The lack of encouragement and outright misinformation and fundamental lack of basic knowledge is what I found most amazing and led me to comment.[/quote]

An [B]exceptionally good point!! [/B]And young readers need to understand what is behind it! Please focus on the “Job Description” and listen to other’s comments but make your own judgement - and I’m saying this for ANYTHING in this world. Try to separate the hype of the “2-minute-sound-bite” of our times and make a good judgement.

[quote=CaptRob1;21990]Prishi, is there more than one company bidding on this job. Because I received the below message and it was not from your company. And according to my e-mail, there is supposed to be a military presence, and I would guess they are not there to chip or paint:

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Hi Rob,[/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Are you free to speak tomorrow evening ( UK time) / midday-ish (US time)?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I’m under some pressure for this initially. I have only spoken with the client today and he needs some CVs through by Tuesday at the latest so they can finalise budgets etc with the top client. The vessel is only due to go in March from Florida to Kuwait with approx 9 crew and between [B][U]2-8 army / navy crew though[/U][/B]. The trip should last approx 47-50 days.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I need a Master (yourself), Mate, Engineer, 2<SUP>nd</SUP> Engineer, Cook etc and am yet to start trying to find individuals. If you do know anyone who could be suitable or interested, would you mind asking them to forward their CV please?[/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]All crew need to be US citizens / seafarers and qualified according to coast guard requirements. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]I believe there is a national scale of wages in the US . [/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Regards,[/COLOR][/FONT][/quote]

CaptRob1,
You asked a question. I don’t know the answer, and neither does your source. You made a point. Point taken. Thank you. As for the chip and paint work, I can discuss maintenance work and any other ship-board activity on a one-on-one forum. Call me shy!:smiley:
Prateek

Prateek or Prishi,
I was not trying to be a smart ass about my post. I just asked if there were different companies going after this delivery, because the company that contact me, said different things that what you did. Thats all.

As far as the offer to discuss maintenance work or other shipboard activities, but I will have to pass on that. I don’t think the information is too creditable from someone who has an OUPV licenses hanging up in their office cubicle.

If you are finished with your incredibly misinformed rant, there are a couple of issues that apply to this and a few other posts on this particular topic. I don’t mean to pick on you personally but you just happened to list in one rambling post all the issues others also imagine apply.

I would take that delivery in a heartbeat. It would not risk my hard earned unlimited chief’s license and I would thorougly enjoy the trip … after it was over.

You listed all the reasons this is illegal or “clearly” outside the regulatory bounds, or falls under the towing rules, or requires this or that, but you are simply wrong. As I suggested early on, this is a public vessel, it is a military vessel and the delivery is on behalf of the Military Sealift Command through the Maritime Administration. All the rules you claim would be violated do not apply and this is completely legal and above board.

You may not like the terms or the manning but it is what it is. If you don’t want to do the job, don’t apply. I don’t think you would be happy or would make other crewmembers happy anyway so it’s all for the better. As one of several who have demonstrated a fundamental lack of maritime knowledge and understanding of the regulations, I suggest that you and the others refrain from posting sweeping generalizations of what you think you know to be required by law. The term “professional” has been bandied about quite a bit in this thread in the context of what one would not do. A professional mariner knows what rules and laws he operates within. Only the amateurs and self appointed sea lawyers post the type of nonsense I have read in this thread. I hope that most readers recognize this for what it is and ignore it.

As far as determining the real facts on this job and this contract … it doesn’t take much to find out. For those who lack the skill or desire to learn the facts … I won’t do your homework for you but I will provide a search string you can use to Google everything you need to know about this job.

Maritime Administration Solicitation Number - N00033-10-R-1000

And for those worried about pirates … read the solicitation very carefully, it may" fulfill your fondest dreams.